DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

[nomos]

some reviews

*

 

[Dubquixote]

...it won't be long before someone just slams the double time beat over it, instantly turning it from half time to something more danceable...

The whole thing reminds me of ouroboros, the snake that eats it's own tail by turning back on itself and trying to eat it's past it is reminiscent of jungle taking halftime ragga vocals and doubling the beat

I predict the return of 2-step shuffle very soon. The Burial album is only the beginning.

timeblind is kinda from that background you're right but i think his tracks are pretty good and deep in that kinda basic channel inspired way and thats ok with me.

His new 'Ghostification' ep is inspiring. Highly recommended for anybody into the dubbier side of dubstep.

some reviews*

Nice one Paul the new Skull Discos are really something. Shackleton definitely going out on a high note if the rumors are true.

 

[the undisputed truth]

I predict the return of 2-step shuffle very soon. The Burial album is only the beginning...

I do hope so but not the cheesy running stuff of old. It's a shame that when garage died it also removed one of the few outlets for UK soul which was intricately bound up in it's twitchy 2 step r'n'b stylings. Give me funky vocal garage over funky vocal house anyday. Although early/mid nineties classics like xpansions, k-klass, bass o matic, strike and bizarre inc to name a few were just so infectiously uplifting you'd have to be a zombie not to have been moved.

I wonder whose going to re interpret the classic stand up piano house riff of that era into the dubstep sound as tech itch did with the acid squelch on ascension.

Another thing is, if I want the dubbier side of anything I'll just listen to dub. More step, less dub is a maxim I've always tried to champion when talking about dub-step and in *cough* producing*cough* it.

On a side note, everyone goes on about El-b and zed bias as proto dubstep dons but in my mind Oxide was way more influential to the developing dubstep sound.

If you listen to so solid - 'they don't know' album which was basically a sanitised greatest hits package of their gritty earlier stylings or "execute" minus the equally impressive neutrino you'll hear it all, the rolling sine wave, the wobble and occassionally a snippet of halfstep.

so any return of the 2 step shuffle could possibly only recreate what he did back in the day.

As for Burial I still think he suffers from a lack of innovative drum programming. Which is understandable if the myth of composing in soundforge is true, as it suggests the sample, edit and filter entire beats method as opposed to building beats from the ground up and effecting each sampled hit.

Bummer to hear about shackleton I reckon he'll be back. Like lycanthropism, once bitten, forever infected. I think it's in his blood.

 

[nomos]

Thanks Dave

Yeah I'm really hoping for more shuffle and bounce to come back into the riddims. It seems pretty clear that dubstep is going through a predictable identity crisis right now (the same one that every style of music has after a couple years and a surge of new interest). I'm generally not to into the very DnB-influenced stuff (or uninspired takes on halfstep) but I don't reckon that it's killing anyone (or dubstep). Just a new kind. For my tastes, I'd like to see a steppier, shuffled variety grow again and persist alongside, or in opposition to the DnB-ish stuff, to balance things out.

 

[Blackdown]

On a side note, everyone goes on about El-b and zed bias as proto dubstep dons but in my mind Oxide was way more influential to the developing dubstep sound.

Oxide? LMFAO. his influence on proto grime i'll give you but dubstep? nope. The biggest proto grime record to influence dubstep was Musical Mob's Pulse X, as you can hear it in Skream and Benga's early stuff (esp Star Wars VIP).

 

[Blackdown]

I have to say I find the whole 'keep dubstep pure' movement that's picked up lately really unappealing. If the music can't survive a little rough and tumble with a few other genres without losing it's identity than maybe there's a reason for that. If the music is as great as you think it is it will survive all such encounters and come away more diverse and enriched.

i've written about the issue of purism in dubstep many times before and during those debates i've really tried to take on board points by people like Jamie Vex'd and Sizzle, that strongly warn against purism as an overriding principle.

The issue relates to the influences used by dubstep. To me it now seems like its not about purism or not, because there's clearly influences i'd love to see dubstep work more closely with and those that i personally wouldn't. so instead of purism or not, it's a question of the sound retaining high levels of quality control or not.

now much has been made of dubstep's awareness of its past (usually by people like Simon R to dismiss much of the sounds' efforts). OK so if the sound is aware of its past, why cant this be used as some kind of foresight?

in essence the urge by some parts of the scene not to go over old ground and head down known cul-de-sacs (ie distorted new school d&b cliches, noisy breaks, reliance on 4/4 kicks, early 90s electronica textures) might perhaps be misinterpreted as purism, when in fact whole other avenues of quite the opposite behavour are occuring, just with styles and ideas that dont suggest they might be a dead end (far eastern/asian/desi sounds, dub/dancehall, dark house, grime, crunk, minimalism/halfstep etc).

ideally this kind of approach would leave the scene unrestrained to try new ideas but also avoid severe drops in quality control.

 

[the undisputed truth]

Yup Oxide. Listen to his production/compostions minus the vocals and I will pretty much guarantee that anyone wanting to bring back the 2 step swing without going down burials road will come off sounding just like Oxide. I'm not talking about proto grime as in the evolution of the vocal style but the evolution of the music behind it.

This quality control thing sounds interesting, would you care to elaborate ?

I can understand as an artist or a label, where the artist controls the quality of their productions and the label controls the quality of their output but I'm at a bit of a loss as to who or what controls the quality for a whole genre ?

surely you're not talking about the music press or the dubstepforum mafia ? lol

 

[Flying Squid]

now much has been made of dubstep's awareness of its past (usually by people like Simon R to dismiss much of the sounds' efforts). OK so if the sound is aware of its past, why cant this be used as some kind of foresight?

Because history is boring and people are too lazy to look backwards for inspiration.

Though Burial is definitely using the past of dubstep's sound as a foresight to his sound. My question is, if others are not as you suggest, will they now thanks to all the press and play Burial has recieved?

I'd also like you to elaborate on this quality control. What determines it, the hype machine? The End's soundsystem in Leeds? Hatcha, Kode9 and the like deciding what's played on RinseFM?

 

[Blackdown]

I'd also like you to elaborate on this quality control. What determines it, the hype machine? The End's soundsystem in Leeds? Hatcha, Kode9 and the like deciding what's played on RinseFM?

in practical terms, i dont know. it's fairly subjective...

 

[SIZZLE]

droplets of niceness, thanks to the readers and understanders.

to clarify, I'm aiming mostly at the internet soldiers here. The dismissive attitude people put on when describing unfashionable (usually recently popular) sounds they don't want near their precious scene just rubs me the wrong way.

Timeblind is a friend of mine making different sounding dubstep stuff and could be painted with this brush, he's been through many scenes, has a long catalog behind him and almost always is fucking with the formula. I think people like him throwing their ideas into dubstep are a very healthy thing, and I have watched the scene closely to see how it would accept his record. I'm pleased to say that people have been quite welcoming, it's gotten played on rinse by Kode9, got love on the relevant forums etc and basically didn't get locked off. To me that's a sign that the scene is healthy. When people start locking off people like him because they 'should stick to whatever genre they came from' then I'd say things have passed the level of fluidity that I need from any scene to maintain my interest.

and slothrop, yes vote with your sequencer, put your dubs up. Only you can express the ideas your expressing here properly, and it won't be via a message board.

 

[UFO over easy]

I think dubstep would have the brightest future if dubstep producers just asked people on dubstepforum.com how they thought dubstep should develop and then did the opposite.

Maybe they should just ask you what they should do instead

What do you guys make of the Various Production album that just came out? Asking both the 'purists' and those crying out for a bit more progression. There's a surprising amount of dubsteppy stuff in there, but with there own distinct style.

 

[nomos]

there are too many straw men in the scene - purists, doa-heads, IDMers, hipsters. let's start by purging them.

 

[boomnoise]

i think there are too many straw men in the scene - purists, doa-heads, hipsters. let's start by purging them.

bloody music fans, eh!

re: various productions - i've played that album over and over and i just can't frame it within a dubstep context at all. doesn't sit comfortably with me. not that i'm a purist, far from it. let's not forget that this sound came about through a rejection of certain elements of garage and it has been built on experimental foundations but with the quality producers in the scene i don't see any lack of innovation and certainly not a lack of will to try new things.

yes, certain new producers are working within a 'drum n bass fallout' paradigm and that appeals to me less but as someone else said, burial's swing is bringing something else back; jumping back about 4 or 5 years, and it's going to add something fresh again.

and with the skream, loefah, mala, coki, front line assaults i'm not worried about the purism or dnb heads.

hipsters always unsettle me though.

 

[Logos]

As for Burial I still think he suffers from a lack of innovative drum programming. Which is understandable if the myth of composing in soundforge is true, as it suggests the sample, edit and filter entire beats method as opposed to building beats from the ground up and effecting each sampled hit.

Who gives a fuck about 'inovative drum programming' - you sound like a fucking muso. Burial sets a tone, vibe, tells stories like no other, and thats why he's the shit.

 

[gek-opel]

In terms of programming it sounds to me as if he has spent a reasonable amount of time before mixing each element down into a full drum loop effecting each element, some of his uses of reverbs and tightly eq-d hi hats are really excellent. No, its not IDM-intricate (meaning piss-boring rhythms largely, but messy sonix) but fucked up off-centre drum lines, which are waaay more difficult to programme successfully, trust.

Various Productions: its so lame I can't be bothered to listen to it any more. The least exciting album I have heard for some time... but on the singles at least it does hint at an awareness of dubstep bass and half-step snares, it certainly carries that feel... but all the hype was ultimately a load of ridiculous puff, as the album itself is patchy, cheesily vocalled, and it never goes anywhere... there's no payoff, no drama, no atmosphere, no mind blowing rhythms or amazing production where you sit back and grin with the audaciousness of it... just bland beats and songs that are not really worthy of the term, just nothing worth listening to.

 

[gek-opel]

@ Paul Autonomic: must we burn the straw men, they're so much fun!

Actually re: purism/anti-purism--- most producers in dubstep (or schmoes who pretend to be on Dubstepforum) would say they were not purists, just like if you were to speak to most people about what music they like they would be likely to say "oooh- im very eclectic, I like a bit of everything" --- it always turns out "eclectic" is synonymous with U2, Travis, Stereophonics...

 

[HMGovt’s Glorious Return!]

some reviews

*

Your Autonomic Computing mix has been sound of the summer within 6 to 30 feet of me, and plenty of other people too if there's any justice. Anything else like that lined up?

 

[boomnoise]

@ Paul Autonomic: must we burn the straw men, they're so much fun!

Actually re: purism/anti-purism--- most producers in dubstep (or schmoes who pretend to be on Dubstepforum) would say they were not purists, just like if you were to speak to most people about what music they like they would be likely to say "oooh- im very eclectic, I like a bit of everything" --- it always turns out "eclectic" is synonymous with U2, Travis, Stereophonics...

tends not to be the people engaging with online music forums though to be honest, gek-opel.

i'm not sure about the idea of people pretending to be producers. surely if someone is making music they are a producer and that has nothing to do with quality. and taking issue with people trying to produce music surely isn't helpful. if you listen to loefah's early stuff then it's miles away from where it is now. and almost certainly every producer can claim this that there early stuff wasn't what they were really happy with.

jamie from vex'd was saying the exact same thing to me the other day and producers from skream to loefah have all repeated the mantra to me: you have to start somewhere.

i agree there is a problem with myspace and forums in that it encourages producers to put there work in the public sphere before its ready rather than organic growth and introspective quality control.

the main problem with regards to purism isn't in fact purism but a repllication. reproducing sounds and ideas rather than coming up with new ones. that is what i think is affecting dubstep negatively the most.

 

[gek-opel]

Or too perfect replication... there's nothing better than producers/musicians attempting to replicate something and getting it deliciously wrong...

 

[UFO over easy]

Or too perfect replication... there's nothing better than producers/musicians attempting to replicate something and getting it deliciously wrong...

Yeah there is - talking about it on Dissensus.