the Change of Heart Thread

[Diaz]

Any other Dissensians like Opera?? (or other non-contemporary/avant "classical" music? I mean, I like the avant shit too, but I'm going crazy right now over this recording of handel arias...)

opera is hard for me, only because a lot of it strikes me as technically amazing but its hard to maintain the vibe on- i either get the catchy bits (les toreadors, aria #14 from the magic flute) or i get lost in waves of endless melodramatic permutation (remembering what i can of the intro to wagner's tristan and isolde). i really like snippets here and there, but my patience wears thin trying to follow a whole plotline. listening habits are hard to break, i guess. don giovanni had some massive sublow going on, though, which gets some of my wheels spinning.


but palestrina and other polyphonic post-chant (HA DISSENSUS ROCK THAT!) totally hits me like a ton of bricks.

man, i'm tearing up just thinking about sicut cervus right now. like, we all think rave or punk or prog or whatever is totally 'wicked sick new future of music' but how about being the guy who first got props for using harmonies in western religious music? architectonic, yo.

de-si-de-ra-a-a-a-a-at ad fooooooontes

 

[zhao]

Sigur Ros. Used to worship them (my third big band love). Have trouble hearing them when they're played down the hall now

exactly same experience here.

 

[shudder]

opera is hard for me, only because a lot of it strikes me as technically amazing but its hard to maintain the vibe on- i either get the catchy bits (les toreadors, aria #14 from the magic flute) or i get lost in waves of endless melodramatic permutation (remembering what i can of the intro to wagner's tristan and isolde). i really like snippets here and there, but my patience wears thin trying to follow a whole plotline. listening habits are hard to break, i guess. don giovanni had some massive sublow going on, though, which gets some of my wheels spinning.


but palestrina and other polyphonic post-chant (HA DISSENSUS ROCK THAT!) totally hits me like a ton of bricks.

man, i'm tearing up just thinking about sicut cervus right now. like, we all think rave or punk or prog or whatever is totally 'wicked sick new future of music' but how about being the guy who first got props for using harmonies in western religious music? architectonic, yo.

de-si-de-ra-a-a-a-a-at ad fooooooontes

I love the "sublow" in don gio! I must say, my opera-liking phase is pretty new... Like, I've never sat through a whole opera live since I've been in this phase. I think I would just melt though if I saw Pelleas live...

and I totally understand about the palestrina type stuff.

 

[Ness Rowlah]

I'm not big on opera either - but I watched this classical quiz programme "Kontrapunkt"
20 years ago (used to be amazingly popular in Scandinavia, when we
had one or two state channels only in each country and it had an eccentric Swede, Sven Broman, doing the presentation) and they played a sequence from Puccini's
from Suor Angelica -
which is basically about these nuns in a convent. And it blew me away.

Since it takes place in a convent there are no male voices and the whole
thing is quite slow (and not full of full-on - well - operatic singing).

Worth a try (it's the only proper opera
record I got, guess McLaren's "Fans" and the "Diva" soundtrack doesn't count).

After some hefty googling I found this guy here ("Unnatural Acts of Opera") and he
is presenting "Suor Angelica" in one of his podcasts (http://libsyn.com/media/parterrebox/SUOR_ANGELICA.mp3).

Sounds like it's recorded from vinyl and he seems to have plenty of other shows going - might be worth subscribing/listening to -

http://www.podcastingnews.com/details/parterre.com/podcast/unnaturalacts.rss/view.htm
or http://parterre.com/unnatural_acts.htm

 

[zhao]

really like snippets here and there, but my patience wears thin trying to follow a whole plotline.

don't know too much about this subject, so please correct me if I'm wrong. but from what I understand this is because the bulk of any opera is just banter - characters talking to eachother in sing-song; and only the main themes of different sections are actually well worked out pieces of music.

I've only been exposed to what I suspect is the surface, Bizet, Puccini, etc.

what I REALLY love though, are the 18th century songs of Italian or German romanticism.

Schubert is so great. and this disc contains some of the loveliest music I have ever heard:

 

[shudder]

there are definitely various types of operas, etc. I'm no expert at all. Those sections between arias ("the bulk of any opera is just banter") are called recitative (pronounced as in, say, French).

for something like debussy's pelléas et mélisande (again, the only opera I know in any kind of depth), the entire thing flits around between all these different singing styles without having any proper arias or recitatives... but for more traditional italian opera, there definitely are fairly commonly followed conventions of what type of singing goes where and to what effect...

 

[Immryr]

Alright. Time to come clean -

Just who is employing Confucius to disseminate these seemingly f-ing endless ingots of unreason? It simply isn't possible for one person to be so systematically irritating on every single topic in the entire universe. Something suspicious is afoot....

yep ive been thinking the same for awhile now

 

[zhao]

yep ive been thinking the same for awhile now

I've said that I will try to be more sensitive. and I do mean that. I am naturally a very open person with little sense of boundaries, so I apologize if I've stepped on anyone's toes.

but if you have a problem with me or my posts, why are you reading threads I started?

might I suggest that it's because they can be, sometimes, on some level, interesting?

I contribute to this board with my real thoughts and sincere feelings. some of which has generated stimulating conversation and debate. others, not. I'm not perfect.

what exactly is your problem?

 

[zhao]

Those sections between arias ("the bulk of any opera is just banter") are called recitative

for more traditional italian opera, there definitely are fairly commonly followed conventions of what type of singing goes where and to what effect...

do the recitatives allow much room for improvisation? or are the melodic lines pretty much set like in an aria?

 

[shudder]

i think it's all pretty much set, at least in terms of the notes.. but in singing classical music, there's so much that needs to be filled in/interpreted by the singer.

 

[bassnation]

yep ive been thinking the same for awhile now

i don't like this pack thing which seems to be going on - zero in on someone when they seem vulnerable and give them a good kicking.

if people don't agree with what he says then fine, thats why we're here - but why the personal attacks?

if people can't deal with it in a civil way then its better to concentrate on contributing something more interesting instead.

 

[Rambler]

Opera for me too - for years I thought I hated it, came up with elaborate (but very 6th-form-ish) reasons why it was WRONG, then saw performances of Peter Grimes, the Magic Flute and a couple of other things and started to think there might be something in this this. Still not completely convinced - the only 'opera' recording I own is Meredith Monk's Atlas - but I'm coming round to the idea.

I have similar feelings about the whole of the 19th century actually; I already love Chopin and late Beethoven, and although I've consciously resisted them, it can't be long before Schumann, Schubert and even Brahms start to worm under my defences.

 

[droid]

i don't like this pack thing which seems to be going on - zero in on someone when they seem vulnerable and give them a good kicking.

if people don't agree with what he says then fine, thats why we're here - but why the personal attacks?

if people can't deal with it in a civil way then its better to concentrate on contributing something more interesting instead.

Big Bars.

 

[infinite thought]

i don't like this pack thing which seems to be going on - zero in on someone when they seem vulnerable and give them a good kicking.

if people don't agree with what he says then fine, thats why we're here - but why the personal attacks?

if people can't deal with it in a civil way then its better to concentrate on contributing something more interesting instead.

Dunno what you mean 'pack thing' - I was speaking for myself. Confucius's recent comments about class, women, AIDS, etc. have irritated me, possibly far too much, let's say, but nevertheless...I can't see how the attacks have been personal either - I don't know anything about the guy beyond what he's written here.

 

[bassnation]

Dunno what you mean 'pack thing' - I was speaking for myself. Confucius's recent comments about class, women, AIDS, etc. have irritated me, possibly far too much, let's say, but nevertheless...I can't see how the attacks have been personal either - I don't know anything about the guy beyond what he's written here.

well, me too.

i just felt it was going too far the other way - every time he breathes he gets some narky responses which seemed to me to be going beyond reasonable debate in tone. didn't want to be part of some kind of movement to make him leave the forum. asking for less contributions from him definitely falls under that category.

above all, i don't like to see peoples feelings being hurt.

i know this is a bit touchy feely, but i can't help that.

i find your posts to be informative and entertaining and i wasn't singling you out in particular - i'm sorry if you disagree with this position.

 

[sufi]

my 2p:

This is a nice thread so lets keep it on track and discuss dissensus pack dynamics elsewhere, if really necessary

 

[bassnation]

This is a nice thread so lets keep it on track and discuss dissensus pack dynamics elsewhere, if really necessary

fair point, sorry for the distraction.

 

[infinite thought]

ok! all understood, reckon.

On-topic then, have definitely had a 'change of heart' re several things of late:

- early Kate Bush (used to loathe the queaky-kookiness of it all, but realise this was to dislike the original at the hands of its imitators, Tori Amos et. al. who were unfortunately omnipresent amongst friends' collections in the mid-90s)

- cold obscure German electro-pop. Just too damn cool (in both senses). Challenged by compilation presents and trips to Kosmische....

 

[IdleRich]

"..and trips to Kosmische...."

I used to go to that every month when it was at the garage in highbury and love it every time. I wish it had never stopped.

 

[Freakaholic]

musical theatre.

used to find it bland, boring, and, well, gay.

but a few years ago, more like 6 or so, i saw Miss Saigon, and around that time Into the Woods on pbs.

into the woods cracked me up. i find it hilarious, and most important, entertaining. still, that couldnt prepare me for seeing miss saigon in the theatre. wow. what a spectacle. and, very entertaining (except that part where i fell asleep, just dont go see a play or show alone).