Why Conspiracy Theories?
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
"Triggered" might be about right, because it's something I've seen over and over in much stronger terms than you're using here, and it's something I feel strongly about. That, and John Eden's post about a public talk on "left/right convergence", and the appeal of conspiracy theories to people on both extreme ends of the political spectrum (Jill Stein being interviewed on inforwars.com!). If it seems over-rehearsed, I did post something similar on FB a couple of weeks back after I encountered those videos of the white students walking out of a lecture on human evolution and the black lass saying we should abandon science for sorcery.
Perhaps I did miss the point about the distinction between rationality and 'rationality'. But like I said, I've just grown so accustomed to soi-disant progressives using the word "rationalism" with scarcely less vitriol than they might say "fascism", whereas in fact the same anti-rationalist impulses are giving rise to a resurgence of actual fascism, or something disturbingly close to it, anyway.
So yeah, don't take the above posts as wholly or even mostly a response to your post. I'm just thinking aloud and, yeah, probably ranting a bit.
Perhaps I did miss the point about the distinction between rationality and 'rationality'. But like I said, I've just grown so accustomed to soi-disant progressives using the word "rationalism" with scarcely less vitriol than they might say "fascism", whereas in fact the same anti-rationalist impulses are giving rise to a resurgence of actual fascism, or something disturbingly close to it, anyway.
So yeah, don't take the above posts as wholly or even mostly a response to your post. I'm just thinking aloud and, yeah, probably ranting a bit.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
But Luke, it's funny you should mention "well-rehearsed lines repeated for the Nth time", because this:
is surely one of your favourite tropes, isn't it? I don't see anyone bringing up Dawkins before you did. Seems to me John made the perfectly reasonable point that there is an important difference between investigative journalism - trying to find out, as far as possible, the truth about real events - and the 'conspiracy theory mindset', that often demonstrates a conviction that a certain conspiracy exists and then looks for patterns of events that apparently back that conviction up (while ignoring anything that appears to gainsay it, or better still, attributing it to intentional dissimulation by The Enemy: "that's what They want you to think").
is surely one of your favourite tropes, isn't it? I don't see anyone bringing up Dawkins before you did. Seems to me John made the perfectly reasonable point that there is an important difference between investigative journalism - trying to find out, as far as possible, the truth about real events - and the 'conspiracy theory mindset', that often demonstrates a conviction that a certain conspiracy exists and then looks for patterns of events that apparently back that conviction up (while ignoring anything that appears to gainsay it, or better still, attributing it to intentional dissimulation by The Enemy: "that's what They want you to think").
luka
Well-known member
I agree I need to expand on this when I get the time
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Link?
vimothy
yurp
There's an interesting section in John Gray's (fantastic) new book, Soul of the Marionette, on conspiracy theories. I've lent it out so can't quote from it, but according to Gray conspiracy theorists are guilty of anthropomorphising history (in much the same way as scientists, political progressives, and Christians - from whom this impulse derives). Conspiracy theories give a central role to human agency, whereas the fact is that ultimately we're all victims of events we can never fully understand or control, - conspirators and theorists alike - subjects of the "universal drift" of history.
luka
Well-known member
It's old and ugly lol. Best forgotten. (I was right though)
craner
Beast of Burden
Well, I am not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think that theories that expunge human agency from history are nonsense, from a Marxist perspective right through to the Nazi anti-Semitism mindset. Denying human agency is one of the major fallacies of ideology, in my opinion. It's also a useful way to deny or relegate certain human desires and choices, for example the idea that Islamist terror is a product of poverty rather than a romantic and seductive world view that people are actually attracted to and choose to identify with. (Caveat: Typically, though, the same argument is never made for Far Right activists, who are always seen as evil, stupid, weird cunts rather than victims of globalisation.)
luka
Well-known member
Feels nice to be able to agree with you for a change
craner
Beast of Burden
Although, maybe I'm getting confused, but don't conspiracy theories also deny human agency? They credit global events as being directed by hidden elites, rather than the actual human beings given high office to make generally flawed, and sometimes wise, decisions?
The Nazi regime was fueled by an ideology premised on anti-semitic conspiracy theories and tried to drain the swamp in a practical manner by persecuting and then murdering Jews. In that sense it was something of an anomaly, a national power structure dedicated to dissolving a perceived transnational shadow conspiracy. Although Marxists claimed it was a front for capitalism, an historic error of profound consequence.
The Nazi regime was fueled by an ideology premised on anti-semitic conspiracy theories and tried to drain the swamp in a practical manner by persecuting and then murdering Jews. In that sense it was something of an anomaly, a national power structure dedicated to dissolving a perceived transnational shadow conspiracy. Although Marxists claimed it was a front for capitalism, an historic error of profound consequence.
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