The World Cup Thread *******

[don_quixote]

Semi-finals

Wednesday June 5, 1968

18:00 CET Stadio San Paolo, Naples
Referee: Kurt Tschenscher (West Germany)
Italy 0 - 0 AET Soviet Union

Italy through on coin toss.

 

[IdleRich]

Shocking.

 

[baboon2004]

This was in the same month that Soviet troops rolled into Czechoslovakia (I think) so, yeah, they were pissed off at that coin toss alright.

 

[baboon2004]

(OK, it was August '68)

 

[Freakaholic]

re: video replay.

FIFA's official line is that the 4th referee saw the action, and no video replay was used to make the call. If he hadnt, then FIFA would have some terrible face-saving to do. No one really knows what he saw, just as no one will really know what Materazzi said. These are secrets that are best left on the pitch, just as Zidane's anger should have been.

re: Golden Ball

I dont care if its a World Cup Final, or a pick up game in the back yard. Trash-talking is part of the game. I used to play striker, and one of my tools was talking trash to get the defense emotionally involved so that they will make mistakes. This is what happened to Zidane, I believe. I think Italy did their homework, and found that he had soft spots, having headbutted and punched palyers before for racist or terrorist related remarks. And he lost his cool.

So, should he still have received the Golden Ball? He was instrumental in the French team achieving the finals, and I dont think there was one Italian player that can claim that sort of responsibility. But still, it is a Tarnished Golden Ball.

Im suprised with FIFA, who are image-whores of the utmost degree, allowed that award to go to him.

 

[foret]

re: video replay.

FIFA's official line is that the 4th referee saw the action, and no video replay was used to make the call. If he hadnt, then FIFA would have some terrible face-saving to do. No one really knows what he saw, just as no one will really know what Materazzi said. These are secrets that are best left on the pitch, just as Zidane's anger should have been.

re: Golden Ball

I dont care if its a World Cup Final, or a pick up game in the back yard. Trash-talking is part of the game. I used to play striker, and one of my tools was talking trash to get the defense emotionally involved so that they will make mistakes. This is what happened to Zidane, I believe. I think Italy did their homework, and found that he had soft spots, having headbutted and punched palyers before for racist or terrorist related remarks. And he lost his cool.

So, should he still have received the Golden Ball? He was instrumental in the French team achieving the finals, and I dont think there was one Italian player that can claim that sort of responsibility. But still, it is a Tarnished Golden Ball.

Im suprised with FIFA, who are image-whores of the utmost degree, allowed that award to go to him.

as it was decided by journalists during the game (before extra time) it's not that surprising

why i though the world cup was shit

# early promise - argentina, spain, ghana especially, huge anticlimax after generally fun group stages
# early exits of the above, and brazil, usually thanks to craven/uninspired decisions by coaches
# the best game of the knockout stages (arg v mx) very early, thereafter the technical level was crap, as shown by-
# the progress of italy (thoroughly undeserving winners) and germany
# very little emerging talent and very few noteworthy players

i think wenger was right when he said the champions' league was the highest level in football

 

[baboon2004]

as it was decided by journalists during the game (before extra time) it's not that surprising

why i though the world cup was shit

# early promise - argentina, spain, ghana especially, huge anticlimax after generally fun group stages
# early exits of the above, and brazil, usually thanks to craven/uninspired decisions by coaches
# the best game of the knockout stages (arg v mx) very early, thereafter the technical level was crap, as shown by-
# the progress of italy (thoroughly undeserving winners) and germany
# very little emerging talent and very few noteworthy players

i think wenger was right when he said the champions' league was the highest level in football

Wenger was 100 per cent right, and this disparity between the ultimate competitions at club and national level has been in evidence for years, at least since the massive hike in cross-border transfers which meant that the richest clubs could assemble and hone a multi-national dream team. At the WC, we saw nothing to match the flair and brilliance of Arsenal against Juventus, or of Barcelona against everyone.

Don't agree that Italy were undeserving winners tho'; or at least they were no more undeserving than many before them have been, and as such not particularly worthy of scorn. I thought Italy v Germany was an excellent game, too.

 

[IdleRich]

"the progress of italy (thoroughly undeserving winners) and germany"

I wouldn't exactly say that Italy were thoroughly undeserving winners but I know what you mean. It really was wide open this time and England had the best chance they've had to win it while I've been alive. Not necessarily because they were especially good but simply because there weren't any truly great teams.

"i think wenger was right when he said the champions' league was the highest level in football"

Without a shadow of a doubt this is true. Club sides can be built stronger than international sides because there are no restrictions on what players they can have, add the fact that they play together week in week out rather than every now and again and it's obvious that you will end up with more potent sides.

 

[Ness Rowlah]

re: video replay.

FIFA's official line is that the 4th referee saw the action, and no video replay was used to make the call. If he hadnt, then FIFA would have some terrible face-saving to do. No one really knows what he saw, just as no one will really know what Materazzi said. These are secrets that are best left on the pitch, just as Zidane's anger should have been.

So what about Lippi's comments just after the game, then?

You will realise it was not Materazzi who got the attention of the referee," said Lippi. "It was the fourth and fifth officials looking at the video at the edge of the pitch. We did not do anything. They saw it and they called the attention of the referee."

Why did it take so long for action to be taken?

It appears the referee was waiting for the situation to clear up a little bit before taking action." is the official FIFA stance (BBC).

Yes it "appears" so -
to give the guys on the sideline a wee bit more time
to watch the replays. What a fekken joke.

Either there was a telly by the pitch or there was not.
I believe the Lippi comment made just after the game
and not FIFA's face saving excersise.

Remember a furious Hiddink was denied access to that
pitchside telly (Japan game, so he prob did not try versus
Italy?, although it must have been very tempting).

---

Transparency has to come. The ref mikes should be broadcast over the PA,
the video footage be available to everyone both pitch side and on the the big screens.
I just hope someone has pictures of those 3rd/4th officials "not" watching that telly ...

 

[Freakaholic]

Here in the US, we cannot watch soccer. Unless you have cable, then you only get a few MLS games, and, like this year, the World Cup in Spanish. I guess ABC aired a few games, but even those I chose to watch in Spanish, as their announcers wer bland, boring, and seemingly uninformed.

So, after loving the WC for the last 3, and then being thoroughly dispapointed in watching what other soccer i could get on tv (MLS..... boring) because of the lack of talent, it is actually good news that the euro leagues are now so much better. this means, for me, at least the possibility of seeing top-level soccer all the time.

now, where can i get that on tv..... perhaps Fox Soccer Channel?

any help?

 

[foret]

I wouldn't exactly say that Italy were thoroughly undeserving winners but I know what you mean. It really was wide open this time and England had the best chance they've had to win it while I've been alive. Not necessarily because they were especially good but simply because there weren't any truly great teams.

if england had a semblance of cohesion and they defeated portugal, et ceteris paribus they would have been favourites of the last four..........

not happy about italy winning as they are so lacking in individual quality, this may be unfair cos they played to their strengths, but their only attacking-ish player (technically he is a defensive midfielder!) of any quality (sorry totti was unfit) was andrea pirlo, who was exceptional

in the final they were just crap, their only attempts on goal were from set pieces and they seemed to be playing for penalties

 

[don_quixote]

completely agree with the degredation of international football - so much so that it is practically worthless. part of me feels that italy won because half their team came from juventus.

the other day graham taylor (who i generally agree with the opinions of) was moaning on the radio about the balance between club and country and how there's too much emphasis on club football and not enough on being successful as a country, and how in the future england managers will be picking players from the lower divisions.

well i couldnt disagree with that more. firstly, has he seen which teams the england squad played for?
from last years league table:
1st chelsea - 4
2nd manchester united - 3
3rd liverpool - 4
4th arsenal - 3
5th tottenham hotspurs - 4

others:
manchester city - 1
middlesbrough - 1
newcastle united - 1

and then in bayern munich and real madrid two of the top clubs in europe. clubs are shooting themselves in the foot if they don't bring through english youngsters. for some clubs it's their major source of income.

secondly, i dont particularly care about how the england side does. most football fans dont. i would have much rather my team, nottingham forest, had got those extra couple of points that would have moved into a play-off place, even if we'd lost in them, than england winning the world cup. the only thing i cared about in this world cup was england making a quarter final so it didnt look like a total embarrassment.

club football has taken over, and the only bad thing about this is that the top level is reserved for a select few now.

 

[don_quixote]

Here in the US, we cannot watch soccer. Unless you have cable, then you only get a few MLS games, and, like this year, the World Cup in Spanish. I guess ABC aired a few games, but even those I chose to watch in Spanish, as their announcers wer bland, boring, and seemingly uninformed.

So, after loving the WC for the last 3, and then being thoroughly dispapointed in watching what other soccer i could get on tv (MLS..... boring) because of the lack of talent, it is actually good news that the euro leagues are now so much better. this means, for me, at least the possibility of seeing top-level soccer all the time.

now, where can i get that on tv..... perhaps Fox Soccer Channel?

any help?

i think it is fox soccer channel. im sure i heard on late night radio here that you can see more premiership football in america than in the uk because 3pm saturday games are off-limits to broadcasters.

 

[nomos]

What did Matterazzi say?

From the Daily Mail :

First Marco Matterazzi called the French star the Italian equivalent of 'n*****', and then insulted both his mother and his Muslim background by saying he is the 'son of a terrorist whore.

And the Times Online :

After an exhaustive study of the match video, and with the help of an Italian translator, Rees claimed that Materazzi called Zidane “the son of a terrorist whore” before adding “so just f*** off” for good measure, supporting the natural assumption that the Frenchman must have been grievously insulted. As the son of two Algerian immigrants, the 34-year-old is proud of his North African roots, dedicating France’s 1998 World Cup win to “all Algerians who are proud of their flag and all those who have made sacrifices for their family but who have never abandoned their own culture”, so such a slur would certainly explain, if not justify, his violent response.

Matterazzi uses the "but my best friend is black" defense.

 

[Lichen]

Zindane's mother had been taken ill at the morning.

 

[D7_bohs]

Here in the US, we cannot watch soccer. Unless you have cable, then you only get a few MLS games, and, like this year, the World Cup in Spanish. I guess ABC aired a few games, but even those I chose to watch in Spanish, as their announcers wer bland, boring, and seemingly uninformed.

So, after loving the WC for the last 3, and then being thoroughly dispapointed in watching what other soccer i could get on tv (MLS..... boring) because of the lack of talent, it is actually good news that the euro leagues are now so much better. this means, for me, at least the possibility of seeing top-level soccer all the time.

now, where can i get that on tv..... perhaps Fox Soccer Channel?

any help?

Wild Idea, but maybe you should actually go to a football match? (don't know if you have a local MLS team) As Don Quixote said above, for real football fans, the fortunes of your own team is way more important than that of an international side, and terrace culture is infinitely more entertaining and sharp than the TV version of the game. We play a summer season in Ireland, so there's been live football during the WC, and while attendances have suffered greatly, I haven't hesitated once between staying in to watch the telly or going to see Bohs - and we're playing nearly unwatchable shite at the moment....

 

[baboon2004]

As Don Quixote said above, for real football fans, the fortunes of your own team is way more important than that of an international side, and terrace culture is infinitely more entertaining and sharp than the TV version of the game.

I agree that terrace culture is entertaining, but this onemanupship shite spouted by 'real football fans' is a bit irritating.

 

[baboon2004]

Ah, I meant oneupmanship.....

 

[John Doe]

Ah, I meant oneupmanship.....

I preferred it first time round...

 

[Freakaholic]

Wild Idea, but maybe you should actually go to a football match? (don't know if you have a local MLS team) As Don Quixote said above, for real football fans, the fortunes of your own team is way more important than that of an international side, and terrace culture is infinitely more entertaining and sharp than the TV version of the game. We play a summer season in Ireland, so there's been live football during the WC, and while attendances have suffered greatly, I haven't hesitated once between staying in to watch the telly or going to see Bohs - and we're playing nearly unwatchable shite at the moment....

Damn good idea. Yes we do, the Chicago Fire. But as mentioned before, the level of play is a bit frustrating to watch. And the fan base in the states is mostly "soccer moms" and their suburbanite kids. Nothing like a football (american), baseball, basketball, or hockey game. (those arent much better, more like carnival acts or pageants where, if you can afford a seat, you cant see the game). Of all of them, I know the least about hockey and enjoy going to the games most. Nothing like sittin up in the cheap seats with a bunch of rednecks drinkin $6 watered-down beers and $5 hotdogs (no ketchup in chicago!) yelling a lot about a game you have no idea whats going on.

And with the Fire, its harder to get to a game. They used to play in Soldier Field, so it would be a massive football sized stadium thats less than 1/10th full. Then they moved to the suburbs for a season, and now they have a permanent field somewhere else that im not entirely sure where.

But still, Ive wanted to go since the inception of the MLS, I just gotta find someone here to go with........