Vinyl Pressing: Tips and Specs

hint

party record with a siren
JTS are at:
http://www.jtsstudio.co.uk

get jah tubby to build you a siren box while you're at it - WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

a lot of indie / below the radar labels use this czech plant for short run stuff (particularly coloured vinyl):
http://www.gzcd.cz

if you're looking to spend a little more and go for a "proper" finished product, or simply want to get some kind of price comparison to make sure you're getting a good deal out of the above 2 plants, check these guys:
http://www.handlewithcare.de
 

egg

Dumpy's Rusty Nut
ahhh, thanks - heard of gzcd but not the others. and jts will do 300/400 7/10/12"s, hallelujah! (hallelujahtubbys)

good good good. now, distribution - bugger it and sell all through rough trade/online? or anyone got an equivalent car boot circuit for more alternative shops? (buyers into both rock and acid/rave/breaks)
 
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Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
egg said:
good good good. now, distribution - bugger it and sell all through rough trade/online? or anyone got an equivalent car boot circuit for more alternative shops? (buyers into both rock and acid/rave/breaks)
I have an aquaintance who sells his stuff here. Before you ask, I have no idea about mark-ups or margins.
 

hint

party record with a siren
egg said:
good good good. now, distribution - bugger it and sell all through rough trade/online? or anyone got an equivalent car boot circuit for more alternative shops? (buyers into both rock and acid/rave/breaks)

well... this is the sticky point.

If you really want to sell your records and do everything "properly", put any thoughts of manufacturing on hold for now and get busy with the CDrs and send them to distribution companies. but this is the main area where small labels fall down - there's just not much of a market for underground vinyl releases these days, so in order to get a distro deal your stuff has to be really obviously sellable and you need to have your shit together to the extent that the distro knows it'd be worth their while to take you on. so be prepared to demonstrate that you have a few releases' worth of strong material ready and waiting.

some distros that might be appropriate (there are many that aren't):

Baked Goods - 016 1236 3233
SRD - 020 8802 3000
Pinnacle - 016 8987 0622
Shellshock - 020 8800 8110
Southern - 020 83 48 46 40

small labels often get fobbed off by some distros - basically if you're not bringing in much money for them, you're not going to be a priority. so be prepared to feel hard done by - expect the worst, but hope for the best.

of course, the self-distributed option is always possible, but be aware that it means you'll spend a lot of time chasing up sales from shops and trying to get money out of them. they're more concerned with paying their distribution accounts so you'll be pretty low in the pecking order and may well end up not seeing any money from some shops at all. it's a hustle, basically.

be realistic - how many copies do you think each individual shop will sell? 5? 10? how many shops do you need to hit to shift all your copies? what about the international market?

outside of certain scenes (like grime) it's hard to narrow down a list of appropriate shops that will shift your product, but from your description of the style of music you'd be doing, I'd try (off the top of my head):

Piccadilly: http://www.piccadillyrecords.co.uk
Rough Trade
Opal Music: http://www.opalmusic.com/home.htm
Boomkat / Pelican Neck: http://www.boomkat.com

with the exception of rough trade, they'll all ensure you have a strong online outlet for your music, which is obviously beneficial for the international market - you can just point people in the direction of the shops' sites.

by the way - starting a label is a great way to piss money away.
 

egg

Dumpy's Rusty Nut
hint said:
in order to get a distro deal your stuff has to be really obviously sellable and you need to have your shit together to the extent that the distro knows it'd be worth their while to take you on. so be prepared to demonstrate that you have a few releases' worth of strong material ready and waiting.
I can get shiznit together ok. Funding more problematic :).
some distros that might be appropriate (there are many that aren't):
Wow, you mighty helpful - Thank You!
small labels often get fobbed off by some distros - basically if you're not bringing in much money for them, you're not going to be a priority. so be prepared to feel hard done by - expect the worst, but hope for the best.

of course, the self-distributed option is always possible, but be aware that it means you'll spend a lot of time chasing up sales from shops and trying to get money out of them. they're more concerned with paying their distribution accounts so you'll be pretty low in the pecking order and may well end up not seeing any money from some shops at all. it's a hustle, basically.
Good reality check. Thanks.
I'd try (off the top of my head):

Piccadilly: http://www.piccadillyrecords.co.uk
Rough Trade
Opal Music: http://www.opalmusic.com/home.htm
Boomkat / Pelican Neck: http://www.boomkat.com
I played what I want to release first to Rough Trade and they were enthusiastic. Which means in a way they are responsible for all of these questions. Enthusiasm rocks! It's just so much more encouraging than general average/fine/negative/maybe vibes.
by the way - starting a label is a great way to piss money away.
Yeh my figures indicate that I can't do anything other than make a £1000 loss on the first two singles at the moment! Which unfortunately is unconscionable. Can I hold out to the 5th release and make it all back on an album?

OK, you have convinced me to investigate distributors further.

And finally, your opinion on the value of PR/promotion/plugging? (moral and financial)
Superthanks
 
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Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
A little more info.

While looking for more info on Direct Metal Masters, I came across the following here:

Lacquer Master
this is an aluminium disc which has been given a laquer coating. The diameter of the Lacquer disc is always larger than the finished record. For example a 12" single or album would be on a 14" Lacquer, where as a 7" single would be cut on either a 14", 12" or 10" Lacquer. If you are making a picture or shaped disc, this must be on a 14" blank, with no test cuts. This is the master disc, it should not be played or touched. It is very fragile and the grooves can be easily damaged. The metalwork is made by a process called electroplating. Space is needed to clip on the electrode. If the master disc were the correct size, the clip would damage the grooves. Do not put cut laquers near a heat source, in a hot room, or where the sun shining through the window will heat them. If you need to store your Lacquers for a long time, keep them in the fridge. This should be no cooler than 5 degrees Centigrade. The idea is to chill, not freeze. Also make sure the box is sealed to keep out moisture and prevent condensation.

An Acetate
An Acetate is basically the same as a Lacquer, but it is the correct size. This is particularly important for 12" records, as few record players can have a 14" disc fitted on them. The main purpose of an acetate is for you to play it at home to make sure you are really happy with the cut, before you pay for the metalwork to be made. The record factory will send you one or two test pressings (TP's or white labels) before they press the rest of your records. Use the Acetate and the test pressing to compare the quality of the finished project. If they do not sound pretty much the same then there may be a problem. One word of warning, every time you play an Acetate you damage it. In the same way that you would damage a Lacquer. Try to resist playing it to your friends or in a club until you have given the test pressings the OK. (heavy stylus weights, back cueing and scratching will all ruin the Acetate very quickly). Once you have OK'd the test pressing (TP) do not play it, or the acetate, any more just in case the production run is faulty. You can use them to prove that the main run is not as good as the TP which you approved. Acetates, were also used by record companies as promotional devices for radio. They could rush an acetate over to a radio station to get air play, while the proper records were being manufactured. Recordable CD's (CDR) are almost exclusively used for this job now.

Direct To Metal
For a Direct to Metal Master a copper blank is used instead of Lacquer, the disc comes in one 14" size. DMM has several advantages. A DMM cut means you can bypass some of the stages of the metal work process. This results in the noise of the record (without music) being less; each stage of metalwork adds a little more noise The advantages of cutting DMM are, that it will handle the top end better (treble) and is more forgiving with sibilance. Also, because of the way the system works, should you need to cut long sides, a higher level can be achieved The disadvantage is, that because a DMM cut gets noisier the deeper the stylus digs into the copper, the depth of the groove is kept to a minimum. This means if you are cutting say dance music, with a lot of low bass, it is possible, on rare occasions to encounter a problem where a small percentage of finished records jump. It is not possible to get a DMM version of an acetate.

Still no insights into technical specs of the various media, but interesting nonetheless. My question would be, "Why copper?". If it's a maleability/machinability/conductivity issue, there are a thousand alloys out there that would stand-up much better.

Any thoughts?
 
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mms

sometimes
here are some lovely links
http://www.aes.org/

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/recording/lathe.html

yuri's cutting studio in brussells, he's another guy who worked at dubplates and mastering in berlin.
ie he's good. http://www.transfermastering.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1

all tech specs and equipment details on there..

the best plant that does heavyweight vinyl and good cuts is musicbase in beligium, i can get the numbers if you want? a little bit pricey but you pay for what you get, which you don't do with some of the uk plants and gz in chech republic. they also do cds
i can get the numbers for u if you want it?

my advice is to go around shops and do a cod with some of the tastemaker shops for first releases, before that take 5% or so for promo and send em out to mags etc...collect the press and make a little sales sheet for them.

on top of that list of shops hint gave u, try normans too, also smallfish.

contact online places as well, cos they sell alot and can sell abroad too for you.
if the record sells well, then you might get offered a distro deal even.
but cod means you might get more cash back for the first release which is worth it.
 

Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
egg said:
& it was very useful....
instrumental in fact.

just got our first radio 1 play!
That's great news, egg. Give us a rundown of your investigation and eventual decision to "take the plunge". I for one would love to hear the story.
 

minikomi

pu1.pu2.wav.noi
Drop the lime/starkey/minikomi/cow'p - clutteridge vol1

I too am def. feeling this thread! I'm at the 'have great choonz, wondering what to do next' stage...
Grime influenced breakcore/clutteridge seems pretty niche at this stage, and im guessing that might be either a good or a bad thing. . .
I guess just making and sending out a nice distro package which presents the music, and what i want to achieve with the label well is a good next step. . . there seems to be a wealth of info on getting the records made but not much about what to do with them...
 

egg

Dumpy's Rusty Nut
cheers

i will get that longer post together chef. in a while. glad yer interested.

it wouldn't have happened (yet) without a lot of people and those people include advisory dissentians (chef, hint, matt, nick.k (rip) and most of all mms).

aw, you fuckers. you changed my life :eek:
 

mms

sometimes
egg said:
cheers

i will get that longer post together chef. in a while. glad yer interested.

it wouldn't have happened (yet) without a lot of people and those people include advisory dissentians (chef, hint, matt, nick.k (rip) and most of all mms).

aw, you fuckers. you changed my life :eek:

sorry i couldn't have helped more, i think i promised to give you a list of radio people etc but plain forgot, started a new job and consequently busy as hell and lacking in money due to the transition period and 4 months temping
 

Helen

Tumbling Dice
Lots of bands in Melbourne send off and get vinyl masterings/pressings done at <a href="http://www.gzcd.com/en/index2.html" target="_blank">GZ Vinyl Pressing</a> in the Czech Republic. Cheaper and better quality to send off to GZ than to get things pressed locally here.
 

minikomi

pu1.pu2.wav.noi
it's the same here in adelaide... .. but im wondering how it measures up against JTS for quality, loud dance presses? im pretty sure the first few terrorythm 12"s were done at JTS and they sound pretty good to me. Also, its probably easier to reach distro from the UK than from Cz. . . but it all comes down to the price.
 

Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
hint said:
If you really want to sell your records and do everything "properly", put any thoughts of manufacturing on hold for now and get busy with the CDrs and send them to distribution companies. but this is the main area where small labels fall down - there's just not much of a market for underground vinyl releases these days, so in order to get a distro deal your stuff has to be really obviously sellable and you need to have your shit together to the extent that the distro knows it'd be worth their while to take you on. so be prepared to demonstrate that you have a few releases' worth of strong material ready and waiting.
Another approach to the distribution issue:

I've recently been in touch with a successful Canadian producer (i.e. he's been at it for at least 5 years) who suggested I put up a simple website with links to RealAudio files of my tracks and a contact address. He said to then forward a link to the website to distros local (NA) and abroad (everywhere else). They hear it, they like it, they get in touch with you. That way one can gauge the response to one's tracks AND one can get an idea of the number of units to press.

Pretty slick, I thought.
 

outraygeous

Well-known member
from personal experince, never press a tune with out sending out cds.
my school of thought was, press track, get distribution, people will hear in the shops, people will buy.

that doesnt work
 

egg

Dumpy's Rusty Nut
ok Chefman, I haven't found the time to make this proper written and humorous so here's some notes on the journey from last year (Maytime) to about now:

- reading the klf’s manual
- reading the creation records biography
- reading 10 other howto books
- yes I want a record label
- name and logo design
- self-duplicating a few cassette and CD-R releases
- realising you need to plan more than one or two CD-R releases to be taken seriously
- researching pressing plants
- interviewing suppliers
- realising it can’t be done for the money
- peel dying making you even more determined
- getting a helpful response from nick.k
- realising it’s possible to do your own tax return & therefore all financials
- deciding fuckit, just do everything you can for the little money you can borrow
- deciding to make everything yourself – website, packaging, promos
- compromising on colour sleeves
- learning dreamweaver; making website
- writing copy
- accountancy and VAT registration
- heartsearching to set up the company according to a certain set of values
- learning photoshop
- designing 7” label
- unearthing cheap mastering
- driving to hackney to get master done
- falling asleep on way home
- realising vinyl masters sound absolute shit on cd
- designing promo label
- making a promo sheet and it being instantly out of date
- getting cd-r stickers lined up wrong
- inkjet running out
- learning colour separation
- getting first feedback from promos
- picking up first 7”s
- designing sleeve stickers
- printing 200 sleeve stickers
- guillotining 200 sleeve stickers
- peeling and sticking 200 sleeve stickers
- hand numbering every disc
- hi-fi amp breaking – having to go next door to listen to your product
- deciding to promote label acts live
- driving miles to print posters and paying fortune
- paying shitloads for gloss paper for flyers
- business plan
- cashflow forecast
- legal support
- opening a business account and asking for a £2000 overdraft
- discussion with local business link (arm of DTI)
- going into first shops to sell 7”s; sales up and down (shop bod=mardy, you feel crap; shop bod=good mood, you feel ace)
- everyone thinking cos you’ve got 15 records on you you can give them a free one when you’re already no better than breaking even
- fluxblog features you
- gutterbreakz bigs you up
- first radio play
- first club play
- first radio one play
- first shop getting in touch without being asked
- first press without sending promos
- updating the site with all news
- photoshop demo runs out – can’t design anything nice any more
- realising you need a 3-4 month lead time… your cashflow forecast is fucked
- test pressings of next release back
- vinyl really is different to cd…
- no hold on your cheap mastering is really shit mastering
- where now?!
- marketing marketing marketing. why didn’t you pay someone to do it? oh yeah you don’t have any money.
- trying to coordinate a tour for the next release
- thinking about releasing a CD-only label comp
- continuing to work a full time OTHER job all the while
- realising you are a stubborn bastard and you should get some humility and ask others for help

some ups in there! many downs... immense tiredness... total respect for anyone who ever managed it - simon r, alan mcgee, laurence bell, daniel miller, that geezer from SFTRI, sub pop, react, marcus, wiley, dizzee, richard rogers, geoff thingy from rough trade, on and on and on, big up forever.

I am taking a break soon and so anticipate returning with lots of energy and climbing the next hurdle.
 

Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
Eggo;

That's great stuff! Sounds like you really put through the wringer. I'm glad you came out OK.

One thing: if ever there was a time for some shameless self-promotion, THIS IS IT.
 
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