DMZ: who's reaching?
- Thread starter Grievous Angel
- Start date
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
I'm coming down for it.
There's a dubstep forum meet-up on the grass outside mass at nine-ish which I'll probably be there for.
Then planning on being there all night and getting first train back to Sheffield.
The Dissensus "brain trust" is actually extremely friendly in the flesh.
There's a dubstep forum meet-up on the grass outside mass at nine-ish which I'll probably be there for.
Then planning on being there all night and getting first train back to Sheffield.
The Dissensus "brain trust" is actually extremely friendly in the flesh.
S
simon silverdollar
Guest
unfortunately i've just found out that i won't be able to make it- it's a friends birthday. arggh. WHY DO GOOD THINGS ALWAYS AHVE TO CLASH?!
but it's lucky for you lot, as i'm a fucking horrible bastard in the flesh, trust me.
but it's lucky for you lot, as i'm a fucking horrible bastard in the flesh, trust me.
machine hugger
(())(())((+))(())(())
I'll be the man that is not there because I'm in California. I wear a Yankee cap most of the time and I'll be behind the decks, my decks, at home.
-tekblazer C
-tekblazer C
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
So who from the Dissensus brain trust will be reaching in the end? And is there an initiation test?
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
I just got back from holiday so I've missed the last week of this - is there going to be a meet up? if so, where? And how will we recognise each other ITF?
An idea - if we agree on a venue for a pre-gig meet, everyone can bring a tome of music crit & read it - should help to identify dissensians from civilians.
An idea - if we agree on a venue for a pre-gig meet, everyone can bring a tome of music crit & read it - should help to identify dissensians from civilians.
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
It was fantastic. Probably better overall than last time.
I came late (avoided the queues) so missed the first set, and was feeling totally exhausted anyway, but loved Youngsta & N-Type when I go there. I thought Mystikz and Loefah dragged a bit, and was too wiped to really enjoy Skream & Hatcha, but that was my fault...
noticed a few more e'd up students there this time...
noticed a few more e'd up students there this time...
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
I managed to get there - a bit late, after waiting for the rest of my crew to arrive back from finsbury park. I arrived in the middle of youngsta's set.
Really dug youngsta - his rinse FM 2hr set with loefah & task from last winter is still the only dubstep mix I've really got into. Hatcha & skream excellent too, skream doing his double time headnod, obviously feeling it.
Really nice crowd, a great mix of hedz down with the program, oldskool south london clubber types & interested bystanders. Lots more women than I expected. Very like the kind of crowds Lost used to pull in.
Slight disappointments - I've never rated Mass as a venue & i didnt think the rig was all that good. Lots of dirty lower mids but I never really felt the proper bass weight.
A few observations - I was surprised to find how easy it is to dance to this music. But dubstep in a club seems a different beast to on the radio - the darkside, scuzzy london side of it is lost & it feels much more international. Maybe a good thing for it's wider appeal but the twitchy vibes were what made the music feel unique for me, without them dubstep feels more of a rootless dance genre albeit an innovative & exiting one.
To develop this, I was hearing elements of techno, dub, hiphop & d&b in the music - the one influence I wasnt hearing, puzzlingly, was garage. I've heard a few people talking about getting the 2-step influence back into the music, and I can see what they mean. The most obviously innovative thing about Dubstep is the totally, totally fresh beat - which, to grossly oversimplify, comes from making electronic music on a reggae rhythm pattern and slowing it down to hip-hop speed. Genuine innovation is so rare in dance music these days that the dubstep inner circle are virtually guarenteed a place at the top table of international dance music, should they decide to go for it. But they should be really wary of de-londonifying the music - if it goes much further down this international path it will get very shit very quickly, and that would be a shame.
Really dug youngsta - his rinse FM 2hr set with loefah & task from last winter is still the only dubstep mix I've really got into. Hatcha & skream excellent too, skream doing his double time headnod, obviously feeling it.
Really nice crowd, a great mix of hedz down with the program, oldskool south london clubber types & interested bystanders. Lots more women than I expected. Very like the kind of crowds Lost used to pull in.
Slight disappointments - I've never rated Mass as a venue & i didnt think the rig was all that good. Lots of dirty lower mids but I never really felt the proper bass weight.
A few observations - I was surprised to find how easy it is to dance to this music. But dubstep in a club seems a different beast to on the radio - the darkside, scuzzy london side of it is lost & it feels much more international. Maybe a good thing for it's wider appeal but the twitchy vibes were what made the music feel unique for me, without them dubstep feels more of a rootless dance genre albeit an innovative & exiting one.
To develop this, I was hearing elements of techno, dub, hiphop & d&b in the music - the one influence I wasnt hearing, puzzlingly, was garage. I've heard a few people talking about getting the 2-step influence back into the music, and I can see what they mean. The most obviously innovative thing about Dubstep is the totally, totally fresh beat - which, to grossly oversimplify, comes from making electronic music on a reggae rhythm pattern and slowing it down to hip-hop speed. Genuine innovation is so rare in dance music these days that the dubstep inner circle are virtually guarenteed a place at the top table of international dance music, should they decide to go for it. But they should be really wary of de-londonifying the music - if it goes much further down this international path it will get very shit very quickly, and that would be a shame.
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
I heard a lot more swinging garage bits this time, as if right on cue - and not just when Distance dropped El B's buck and bury.
Loefah's done a couple of hiphippy ones now, very good.
But yes, lots of breadth of influence in there, and I think any de-Londonisation is unlikely.
Oh, and I really, really liked the system!
Loefah's done a couple of hiphippy ones now, very good.
But yes, lots of breadth of influence in there, and I think any de-Londonisation is unlikely.
Oh, and I really, really liked the system!
bassnation
the abyss
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:
i'm not sure i agree with this - isn't it marginalising all those people overseas pushing the sound and supporting the scene? or do you just mean the sound itself? internationalisation it never did house music any harm (with us being importers instead of exporters) but i guess house is a different beast altogether.
dubstep seems more international than grime to these ears anyway.
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3underscore
Well-known member
I've heard that the hottest producers are from NZ...
bassnation
the abyss
3underscore said:I've heard that the hottest producers are from NZ...
LOL, what was his name again?
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
bassnation said:
Yeah sorry, I'm not having a pop at those supporting scenes overseas. What I meant was that I wouldnt want dubstep to become a global mega-genre like house or trance or breaks, with soulless enormo-raves & rip off compilations. If a kid in naples or sao paulo wants to take the dubstep template and put the influence of his own enviroment into it, more power to them. I just like dance music to be relevent to it's local area.
bassnation said:
Well in commercial terms maybe, but from an aethetic point of view I think thats extremely debatable. House is always stronger when it's got a local spin on it and it's part of a bonafide local scene - cf chicago, bleep & bass (sheffield) garage (london) parisien house (er, paris).
2stepfan - the rig was OK, but I know free party soundsystems that would destroy that rig. Proper clean bass will knock your breath out, but you can hold a conversation over it (once you've had another breath!). All that stuff that makes your ears ring and stops you from hearing people talk is lower mid distortion.
Part of the problem is the building - all that energy that was shaking the stairwell & the toilets... very impressive but it's fuck alll use in there, it should be on the dancefloor. Thats why rigs sound best outside (he says, donning his free party militant hat) and if you cant have em outside it's best to have a brick tunnel like the end or jax or cloud 9. All those clubs sound way better than mass.
bassnation
the abyss
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:
i totally agree with this.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:
Hmm. The End wasn't all that hot other week at fwd...much worse than Mass on Saturday.
I thought the system was good this time, still not 3rd base good but close.
I had a great time as usual.
As for swing/garage etc...well you would have heard a lot more - on the surface - garage influence in the tunes if you attended fwd two or three years ago. Like all sounds dubstep moved on, mainly because of the relentless attitude London scenes have for pushing in a new direction. Its been and done garage and now its something else.
The garage inflection is still there I believe in the hi hats. I know you said it was an over-simplification, but I have to disagree with you on one point though - half-step is not really based on a positive apeing a reggage beat but as an abstraction away from the twitch of 2-step...its more of a reaction to 2-step, a "where do we go from here". In jungle the answer was to speed up from hardcore, in dubstep the answer (partly) was to emphasise the half time at 138 bpm. Anyway
Also the lack of discernable garage-y elements was partly to do with the DJs on the night. If you were there last time you would have heard Kode 9 who definitely carries that nervous swing aesthetic much more forcefully in his music and his selection than Loefah or Yunx...and if you had heard Mala on his own as opposed to the Mala/Loefah ying/yang effect, you would have seen a much more 'up' aesthetic articulated. Whereas Youngsta, Loefah - these are your half-step leaders.
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Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Logos said:
They redid the system at the end around 2001 & the new one isnt as good. Word Ive heard is that it's great if it's perfectly set up, but it's not too tolerent of being abused.
The original one was the absolute dogs. Proper lose-your-lunch bass. I used to go to Ganja Kru nights in there that were unbelievably heavy.
Logos said:The garage inflection is still there I believe in the hi hats. I know you said it was an over-simplification, but I have to disagree with you on one point though - half-step is not really based on a positive apeing a reggage beat but as an abstraction away from the twitch of 2-step...its more of a reaction to 2-step, a "where do we go from here". In jungle the answer was to speed up from hardcore, in dubstep the answer (partly) was to emphasise the half time at 138 bpm. Anyway
Well, what I noticed was it has the same beat pattern as reggae. If you listen to roots, you can count 1-2-3-4 at double time over the music and the accent will fall on the three. This double time count is generally running at about 140-155 bpm, so jungle producers started dropping breaks directly across roots tracks at double speed (of course those breaks were taken from funk which has a different rhythmic pulse, hence the glorious confusion of early jungle).
Fast forward a few years and former jungle producers are trying to get the offbeats back into garage, but working within a 4/4 house beat that's a little slower - the result is 2-step, with a choppy double time pulse (hence the hihats are always really prominent in 2step). Dubstep as you say is stretching that out by taking the ghosts of the 4/4 house beat still present in 2step & making that the double time pulse, so the actual drum track is running at about 65-70 bpm. Roots is generally faster than than that, so dubstep producers seem to identify with the really heavy dub.
There was a genius track on that youngsta mix which sampled the 'dupCHACKdubCHACK' rhythm off some reggae record & slowed it so it was really viscous.
Sorry I'm a producer so I'm into this nerdy stuff. One thing I love about dubstep is that the basslines often run at double time, so people jig about to those little quakes & wobbles. In jungle the drums were running twice as fast as the bass, so dubstep is like's jungles photo-negative.
Really enjoyed it - probably the best one I've been to (my 4th), and waaay better then FWD@ The End, which i found a bit disappointing (but then, i didn't hang around til mystikz and kode9). Thought the system was good, altho perhaps i'm not as much as an authority as mr. gabba. Sounded pretty damn good to me, and seemed to get louder and louder, but still could handle the bass weight. The seperation between the sounds was brilliantly colourful, particularly on skream's stuff.
Highlights for me were Loefah (for the minimalism, darkness and weight), and Skream (for the sheer cheekiness).
Managed to soul-jah on til about 5:30 too, desperate not to leave, but by that point i realised that i was stuck in a zombie-like lurch, rather than a full on skank (and looking around, i wasn't the only one!). My knees are still aching.
Loved the variety too. And those occaisional moments when you stop for a second and realise how fundamentally weird the music is, especially at loefah's most minimal. It amazes me how all these people are dancing away to something something so baffling. Which is just one of the things that makes the whole experience so great.
Chatted to some randoms too, who were all safe. Hello to anyone i met, altho didn't get as far as names. No doubt we'll step on each others toes again.
Things did get a bit repetitive, but i was still happy to here most tunes returning. The point at which i was getting a bit fed up with it was more or less the exact point that it stopped (i.e. with skream).
Less rewinds this time too, which altho i do enjoy, can break things up a bit too much. They're good for getting people going, but it's better if you can do that with a decent mix instead.
Enjoyed that structure of sets too, more djs gave more variety, and an hour and half slot seemed to work quite well. I usually find that the two hour dmz slot kinda wears a bit thin.
It seems like with each dmz, the bloke:bird ratio improves just a little bit more, which is quite important. The girls have allowed me to add a bit more diversity to my dancing style too - girls tend to dance much more hippy and sexy than the rather blokish skank. A whole new world opened up when i realised that!
About the only thing that could have improved the night would have been a kode9 presence.
Oh, and some alternative to a £3.50 bottle.
Highlights for me were Loefah (for the minimalism, darkness and weight), and Skream (for the sheer cheekiness).
Managed to soul-jah on til about 5:30 too, desperate not to leave, but by that point i realised that i was stuck in a zombie-like lurch, rather than a full on skank (and looking around, i wasn't the only one!). My knees are still aching.
Loved the variety too. And those occaisional moments when you stop for a second and realise how fundamentally weird the music is, especially at loefah's most minimal. It amazes me how all these people are dancing away to something something so baffling. Which is just one of the things that makes the whole experience so great.
Chatted to some randoms too, who were all safe. Hello to anyone i met, altho didn't get as far as names. No doubt we'll step on each others toes again.
Things did get a bit repetitive, but i was still happy to here most tunes returning. The point at which i was getting a bit fed up with it was more or less the exact point that it stopped (i.e. with skream).
Less rewinds this time too, which altho i do enjoy, can break things up a bit too much. They're good for getting people going, but it's better if you can do that with a decent mix instead.
Enjoyed that structure of sets too, more djs gave more variety, and an hour and half slot seemed to work quite well. I usually find that the two hour dmz slot kinda wears a bit thin.
It seems like with each dmz, the bloke:bird ratio improves just a little bit more, which is quite important.
The girls have allowed me to add a bit more diversity to my dancing style too - girls tend to dance much more hippy and sexy than the rather blokish skank. A whole new world opened up when i realised that!About the only thing that could have improved the night would have been a kode9 presence.
Oh, and some alternative to a £3.50 bottle.