Poll: What kind of school did Dissensus posters go to?
- Thread starter john eden
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foret
Guest
spackb0y said:
sickening innit
i don't think i _talked_ to a girl of my own age between the age of 7 and 17 or so
my school was full of aspergers kids who spent their time reading fantasy books and playing about with computers, so i was quite unexceptional i suppose
even for 'normal' kids single-sex schooling is a disaster and only callous and stupid parents could think one more a* gcse is a good tradeoff for emotional development
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
simon silverdollar said:
I was schooled in the seething metropolis of Nantwich. Wierd part of the world. I lived in a village so there was lots of rural/agricultural land in my immediate area - all my early drug experiences took place in fields or woods, which was great. But then Crewe is a railway town & hardcore working class for the most part - rave/baggy hit very big there, and got transmitted to our school by crewe kids whose aspirational parents bussed them out to leafy nantwich for thier schooling.
The main thing was that there were loads of different types of people at my school - there wasnt really a clique or an expected ideal for people to emulate, which I thought was quite cool. There were no real outsiders, everyone seemed to have their little crew.
Local comp. Happened to be very good, with an outstanding music department. Parents didn't apply to the local boys grammer school (which regularly comes top ten in the league tables these days) because they had a reputation for rejecting prospective pupils with chronic illnesses. Well, you don't become the best by putting obstacles in your way.
Wouldn't have swapped my school for many though; some absolutely superb teachers there, and although I got my fair share of mild bullying (near the top of my class, played in the school orchestra, wore braces - I had it coming...) I owe that place a huge amount.
Wouldn't have swapped my school for many though; some absolutely superb teachers there, and although I got my fair share of mild bullying (near the top of my class, played in the school orchestra, wore braces - I had it coming...) I owe that place a huge amount.
well, 'dissensus poster' wouldn't be quite true of late, but can't resist an oppurtunity to grind a much-ground axe (hmm, only a 7% majority for comprehensives, when it's roughly the same amount nationally that go to public school- what does that say about dissensus... 
)
anyway. i went to a reasonably ok state primary school with frequent but non-violent victimisation, followed by one somewhat worse secondary until 13, where i got shunted round classes to avoid general unpleasantness from peers, followed by vastly worse secondary for 3 years after moving house, a place which still essentially forms in most details my view of the world.
that is, in that it had a combination of official cosiness- we had a distinctly blair-like head who would make cradling hand gestures to indicate how we were one big commuuuunity- endemic violence- rarely did a week go by without getting slapped about in one way or other- and stratification- the place was divided between more or less irreconcilable groups, something usually seen to best effect when 'hippies' (ie, those without hairgel or slammin vinyl bags) and sikh kids ran the gauntlet of skinheads to try and get home. other things i enjoyed about that school was the general presumption on the part of teachers that i was thick, which necessiated me being in lower sets for most stuff, usually involving spending lots of time with people who enjoyed kicking me; it renaming itself a 'community campus' when it got lottery funding for a sports hall; and i really ought to stop now.
was recently reminded that its system of punishments and detentions was known as 'discipline for learning'. marvellous.
funnily enough, the thing that stopped it from being totally unbearable was the kids from guilty middle class lefty backgrounds, who after initial class-based suspicion adopted me somewhat, while my fellow council estate scum tended to make my life a misery, instilling a weird obsession with class that i haven't in any way lost, no matter how irrelevant it might get. (oh and credit where it's due, the history teacher was nice)
)anyway. i went to a reasonably ok state primary school with frequent but non-violent victimisation, followed by one somewhat worse secondary until 13, where i got shunted round classes to avoid general unpleasantness from peers, followed by vastly worse secondary for 3 years after moving house, a place which still essentially forms in most details my view of the world.
that is, in that it had a combination of official cosiness- we had a distinctly blair-like head who would make cradling hand gestures to indicate how we were one big commuuuunity- endemic violence- rarely did a week go by without getting slapped about in one way or other- and stratification- the place was divided between more or less irreconcilable groups, something usually seen to best effect when 'hippies' (ie, those without hairgel or slammin vinyl bags) and sikh kids ran the gauntlet of skinheads to try and get home. other things i enjoyed about that school was the general presumption on the part of teachers that i was thick, which necessiated me being in lower sets for most stuff, usually involving spending lots of time with people who enjoyed kicking me; it renaming itself a 'community campus' when it got lottery funding for a sports hall; and i really ought to stop now.
was recently reminded that its system of punishments and detentions was known as 'discipline for learning'. marvellous.
funnily enough, the thing that stopped it from being totally unbearable was the kids from guilty middle class lefty backgrounds, who after initial class-based suspicion adopted me somewhat, while my fellow council estate scum tended to make my life a misery, instilling a weird obsession with class that i haven't in any way lost, no matter how irrelevant it might get. (oh and credit where it's due, the history teacher was nice)
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simon silverdollar
Guest
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:
lovely open air swimming pool in nantwich though, right?
crewe is a bit of a crazy place in my experience.
F
foret
Guest
owen said:
that it's full of guilty middle class lefty types ripe for a tripping, or
that the poll has shifted considerably in the last hour, or that comprehensive schools aren't the best place to learn maths ;o
Can I just make an intervention here? I'm really quite surprised at how much cultural stereotyping seems to be going on in these posts - ie 'middle class' = calm, civilised, loving, goal orientated, ambition-enhancing, nurturing etc; 'working class' a constantly brutal (and brutalising) affair. This as much from those who went to comprehensives as those who went to fee paying schools. I'm sorry but I find this sort of thinking unbearably cliched and tiresome. Speaking as someone who grew up on a council estate and went to the local comprehensive school I wanna say my childhood was on the whole happy, fulfilled and positive. Not every council estate is like a war zone - in fact, more often than not, they are peopled by decent working class people who just happen be unable to afford to get on the property ladder; my comprehensive was full of enthusiastic and committed teachers who were more than willing to provide encouragement should you show any sign of ability/ambition/interest etc. I grew up in what was then an industrial town in the north west of england (it's now distinctly post-industrial) and my peers at school were coal miners sons, factory workers daughters etc - ie solidly working class, so there was little that was (to employ the stereotype) leafy or middle-class about the institution I went to. Like everyone else I experienced a bit of bullying, some rough times, there were some real nutters in my school etc, but nothing really to report. By contrast, many of my middle class friends who went to fee-paying schools (some distinctly prestigious) have regaled me with real horror stories of the bullying and brutalization they suffered, the ignorant indifference of their teachers etc etc etc. A couple of unforuntate souls I know have, due to drugs and mental problems, dropped off the map altogether in the most dramatic and saddening fashion.
This is not to say that my experiences are somehow more valid or typical than others posted here, but just to issue a request: can we please drop these Daily Mail-esque stereotypes of working class bad/middle class good?
This is not to say that my experiences are somehow more valid or typical than others posted here, but just to issue a request: can we please drop these Daily Mail-esque stereotypes of working class bad/middle class good?
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
State primary school, in Hornchurch, Essex; Catholic. Run by a very nice nun who watched helplessly as the paedophile priests abused her charges. Eventually got them sent back to Ireland. Vast childhood paranoia as a result.
State comprehensive secondary school, Hornchurch / Romford borders. Catholic, Jesuit-based. My old form teacher is doing a long jail term for paedophilia. My old English teacher subsequently got sent back to New Zealand after allegations of paedophilia. Bit of a pattern emerging there. Unbelievably violent. Lots of NF action, at school, on the street, in the youth clubs...
Vast teenage paranoia as a result. Teaching was pretty rubbish.
Totally screwed up A-levels (it was that year the tories ran out of cash and had to cut loads of university places, so engineered vast numbers of unexpected failures - well that was the conspiracy theory at the time) so parents paid (not that much) for me to go to this crammer. It had the advantage of being near Kensington Market and its excellent record stalls and was full of rich kids smoking dope not doing any work. I did, and thereby did OK in the end.
I fucking hated school and it did me a lot of damage but you know what they say, what doesn't kill you... all that childhood crap becomes pure gold as you get older...
State comprehensive secondary school, Hornchurch / Romford borders. Catholic, Jesuit-based. My old form teacher is doing a long jail term for paedophilia. My old English teacher subsequently got sent back to New Zealand after allegations of paedophilia. Bit of a pattern emerging there. Unbelievably violent. Lots of NF action, at school, on the street, in the youth clubs...
Vast teenage paranoia as a result. Teaching was pretty rubbish.
Totally screwed up A-levels (it was that year the tories ran out of cash and had to cut loads of university places, so engineered vast numbers of unexpected failures - well that was the conspiracy theory at the time) so parents paid (not that much) for me to go to this crammer. It had the advantage of being near Kensington Market and its excellent record stalls and was full of rich kids smoking dope not doing any work. I did, and thereby did OK in the end.
I fucking hated school and it did me a lot of damage but you know what they say, what doesn't kill you... all that childhood crap becomes pure gold as you get older...
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Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
John Doe said:
See your point John, but...
a/ Any thread debating the merits of state vs. private schooling is going to spend a lot of time talking about class - it's unavoidable.
b/ I think this thread is distinguished by an emphasis on individual narratives rather than generalizations. There are horror stories from both sides of the state/fee-paying divide and plenty of questioning traditional middle class asumptions on education eg:
foret said:
No-one is using either middle or working class as a pejoritive term.
c/ It's right to guard against improper use of the terms working & middle class, but not to deconstruct all meaning out of them. The government tells us we're now a classless society, but anyone who looks around knows that it's bollocks. Generally, middle class parents have higher aspirations for their kids than working class ones, and MC kids get better schooling. That's not fair but it's a fact - I dont think recognising that is stereotyping, if you accept that there will always be exceptions.
Went to a Catholic comprehensive, all I can say about it is that it engendered in me a voracious contempt for all religious nutters (yes, even peaceable, 'non-extremist' Muslims and Buddhists) ; I discovered how to make various incendiary devices ; I was told by careers advisory that I'd be best off becoming a mechanic and then thrown out of the room, ; some ugly bitch of an art teacher told me I belonged in a special school because I couldn't draw straight ; I learnt how to make a 'shit bomb', though never actually fashioned one of my own. Luckily, I teamed up with some muckers and we spent our days bunking PE, reading Melody Maker, fantasising about forming a band, acting like spotty masturbating little twats, and so on. Never got bullied, the only really violent incidents I remember were a mass fight with a nearby school, and some older kid getting arrested and expelled for bringing a flick knife and some hammers into school, someone getting their cheek singed with a bunsen burner in a semi-racist attack, a fight where someone got stabbed (one of my mates was taking bets on the outcome, and rather unfairly got expelled just for that) - oh and someone making shit bombs and throwing them off the roof onto the playground. We used to play this game where we'd bunk off down the park and throw bits of masonry at each other, lobbing them at the tops of trees and waiting for them to bounce down the branches, seeing how long we had the guts to stand underneath them, before legging it or getting brained. Just before we left, some kid went mad and got put in a home, one got into smack, but I really clearly remember the time someone brought a rabbit in for a test experiment (nothing lethal or even painful, observing what types of food it went for in various outdoor locations) - and someone 'liberated' it.
But in any case, I knew tonnes of working class kids who wanted to become biomolecular scientists and the like, and who thought NWA and Public Enemy were 'sad'. A lot of the kids worked hard and got very good grades. Also, I briefly went out with a girl from a public school, which was a bit of a laugh, she was really nice!
But in any case, I knew tonnes of working class kids who wanted to become biomolecular scientists and the like, and who thought NWA and Public Enemy were 'sad'. A lot of the kids worked hard and got very good grades. Also, I briefly went out with a girl from a public school, which was a bit of a laugh, she was really nice!
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:See your point John, but...
a/ Any thread debating the merits of state vs. private schooling is going to spend a lot of time talking about class - it's unavoidable.
b/ I think this thread is distinguished by an emphasis on individual narratives rather than generalizations. There are horror stories from both sides of the state/fee-paying divide and plenty of questioning traditional middle class asumptions on education ...
No-one is using either middle or working class as a pejoritive term.
I accept your point totally- I wasn't saying that class should be taboo, nor that it was being used as a perjorative turn, just that there seems to be a lot of unspoken stereotypical assumptions underpinning some of the attitudes/expressions I've read in this thread that surprised me, given that I find many posters on this site to be more intelligent and original in their approach than most. Class is a valid, but ultimately extremely blunt and limited, tool of analysis - albeit one that is unavoidable when it comes to looking at certain matters (education obviously being one of them).
As for this:
Generally, middle class parents have higher aspirations for their kids than working class ones, and MC kids get better schooling. That's not fair but it's a fact
Hmmm, well, there's a statment. I, and many of my state school, council estate-raised mates boasted parents that were extremely ambitious for their children in terms of education and achievement, while there have been a fair few lumpen bourgeoise parents I've come across. A debate like this one could run and run...
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
To be honest, the assumption that they're entirely homogenous in any way seems pretty far off the mark. (I keep meaning to start a 'define middle class' thread when I have a boring afternoon.) There seems to be some equation of middle class and private schooling, for instance, which from my experience is a leetle inaccurate...John Doe said:
fwiw, I wen't to my local village primary and then a state boys grammar - again one with some delusions of granduer. All okay, good times and bad times like most other people. I agree with the comments on boys' schools although I seem to have survived more or less intact.
F
foret
Guest
stelfox said:
subtext=middle class kids can be hard too?
ime, having experience of a shit primary school (soon to be closed by the council i think) and a private school, there isn't much comparison between 8 yr olds stabbing each other in the eye with pointy stationery and relentless low level psychological torture (thankfully i got none of the former and less of the latter than some others)
John Doe said:
dunno the private school i went to was alot more brutal than the state schools alot more institutionalised bullying, alot more tiers of aggression, lines etc alot more violence from teachers with the policy of the school being - 'if you don't like it you can take your kids elsewhere'
infinite thought
pigferatu
I'm shocked at the number of all-boys schools on show here. I didn't think there were that many of 'em left...weird victorian morality....
I went to my local Wiltshire comp, like Billie Piper, tho not the same one (sadly). It was quite good, though I'm vague on the details mostly cos I was always reading instead of paying attention to what was going on beyond that. The co-ed aspect was lots of fun, exchanging field corners for bike sheds given the rural context, heh heh heh.
Didn't really like the academic side of school until A levels tho, when I had the revelation that learning things could really be quite exciting - a couple of good and encouraging teachers really made all the difference and probably sorted me out for the glittering academic career I currently enjoy...hmm!
Socially it was pretty mixed, ethnically a lot less so (two black kids in the whole school!). But that's the countryside for you. I got angry when it came to applying for university and virtually all my bright working-class friends were put off (money, mostly) while the middle-class dullards didn't even consider <i>not</i> going. Some of the former went a couple of years later after saving up and did really well, so it wasn't all bad, though I'm still militant that HE should be free.
I've never been friends with anyone who went to private school and enjoyed it, tho my mates who went and had a shit time are some of the most interesting people I've ever met (thank God they survived it).
I went to my local Wiltshire comp, like Billie Piper, tho not the same one (sadly). It was quite good, though I'm vague on the details mostly cos I was always reading instead of paying attention to what was going on beyond that. The co-ed aspect was lots of fun, exchanging field corners for bike sheds given the rural context, heh heh heh.
Didn't really like the academic side of school until A levels tho, when I had the revelation that learning things could really be quite exciting - a couple of good and encouraging teachers really made all the difference and probably sorted me out for the glittering academic career I currently enjoy...hmm!
Socially it was pretty mixed, ethnically a lot less so (two black kids in the whole school!). But that's the countryside for you. I got angry when it came to applying for university and virtually all my bright working-class friends were put off (money, mostly) while the middle-class dullards didn't even consider <i>not</i> going. Some of the former went a couple of years later after saving up and did really well, so it wasn't all bad, though I'm still militant that HE should be free.
I've never been friends with anyone who went to private school and enjoyed it, tho my mates who went and had a shit time are some of the most interesting people I've ever met (thank God they survived it).