the undisputed truth
Banned
ardkore>>jungle>>drum n bass>>nu skool breaks>>breakstep>>dubstep ??
the hardcore continuum
- Thread starter the undisputed truth
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Slothrop
Tight but Polite
You can't pick out a continuous progression from jungle to 2-step though, like you could with ardkore and jungle. Was the term originally coined to include 2-step, or was it coined after jungle and subsequently extended? The jump into garage seems more like an infection or a hijack than part of a continuum...
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Actually, yeah, ardkore as a virus. It infects otherwise quite straightforward genres (particularly those with intrinsic popishness, 'urbanness' and dancefloor-centricism[1]) and sends them into a period of flux and contradiction and creativity from which they eventually settle down into one or more stable and 'dead' forms, at which point the virus moves on to the next host. Watch out funky house.
Although if this theory is actually worth developing I'm guessing that Kode9 already got there with considerably more subtlety.
[1] although this leaves you wondering, as someone did upthread, how far speed garage would have gone by itself without the junglist influx - to what extent was the influx a cause of garage's musical development and to what extent was it an effect of the intrinsic potential of the mix of sounds... sorry, I'm thinking out loud here...
Although if this theory is actually worth developing I'm guessing that Kode9 already got there with considerably more subtlety.
[1] although this leaves you wondering, as someone did upthread, how far speed garage would have gone by itself without the junglist influx - to what extent was the influx a cause of garage's musical development and to what extent was it an effect of the intrinsic potential of the mix of sounds... sorry, I'm thinking out loud here...
the undisputed truth
Banned
I say 'nuum' like numb. Only I extend it to sound like a buddhist chant 'om mani padme numb'.
From the sounds of it and on the surface the 'nuum' has little to do with 'sonic warfare', kode9's pet theory.
I think funky house is immune. Having been exposed to so many viral infections from other genres, it has built up it's defences and is now beyond ordinary malaise.
From the sounds of it and on the surface the 'nuum' has little to do with 'sonic warfare', kode9's pet theory.
I think funky house is immune. Having been exposed to so many viral infections from other genres, it has built up it's defences and is now beyond ordinary malaise.
the undisputed truth
Banned
Your point being ?
Precious Cuts
Well-known member
Jonny L produced Victoria Beckham's 2step single
Hackney Soldiers were Ratpack or SUAD (or someone like that)
Teebone was a jungle producer.
Marvelous Cain switched to 2step
Skibadee did 2step tracks
Remarc had a big garage hit
there were countless rumours about all sorts of dnb producers making garage under pseudonyms. I think its clearly relfected in the music - in the production and even more so the MCing.
from the very beginning, speed garage tracks like double 99 "ripgroove" had a strong jungle influence.
I can see a clear connection between jungle and 2step. what I can't see is how anyone can posit nu skool breaks as the main intermediary between jungle and dubstep. it just doesn't any make sense at all
Hackney Soldiers were Ratpack or SUAD (or someone like that)
Teebone was a jungle producer.
Marvelous Cain switched to 2step
Skibadee did 2step tracks
Remarc had a big garage hit
there were countless rumours about all sorts of dnb producers making garage under pseudonyms. I think its clearly relfected in the music - in the production and even more so the MCing.
from the very beginning, speed garage tracks like double 99 "ripgroove" had a strong jungle influence.
I can see a clear connection between jungle and 2step. what I can't see is how anyone can posit nu skool breaks as the main intermediary between jungle and dubstep. it just doesn't any make sense at all
If undisputed wants to argue for an infusion of nu-skool breaks and breakstep influence into the current dubstep sound, then sure, go head, b/c the thing is, the evidence will be forthcoming, i.e., we will see if it happens or not. Pretty simple, that. It either will or it won't. Can't say that I imagine it happening anytime soon . . . .
As for undisputed's earlier championing of the breaks and breakstep side, okay, yes, Skinnz tune "Corner" from the Our Sound LP was decent, but hardly definitive (!) - I saw Dave Q draw for it last November in the basement of Rothko going b2b with Joe Nice the night after Kode 9 played (he didn't mix into it though, had to kill a Mystikz tune with the start/stop switch but hey, fair play) and it sounded pretty darned good, as I recall. Regarding Rag & Bone, can't say that I've followed the releases this year, but earlier, the Babylon EP by Noyeahno had about one good tune on it ("I've killed a lot of people"), Warlock's "Full Tilt" was a decent little banger. On the breakstep or "underground breaks" tip (remember that term, anyone, anyone?), certainly the Toasty releases on Hot Flush as well as the S&D (HF 03) and Slaughter Mob (HF03) were really splendid tracks; I really liked the Slaughter Mob vs. Search and Destroy tunes on Halo Beats 01 as well.
But that wasn't where the scene was headed . . . what I don't understand about undisputed's posts on this thread is the attempt to re-write the whole 'ardkore continuum in order to delete 2-step and garage in favor of nu-skool breaks. As Logos and Tim F have pointed out, you won't find many sympathizers for that view on dissensus. It is a very, very idiosyncratic view, I would think. Don't forget, two and three years ago people were talking about *grime* in relation to the ardkore continuum - see Woebot's old posts on 'UK Bounce' and the discussions in the dissensus archives where dubstep was still referred to as "the forward>> sound"!
Anyway. Two more painfully obvious references. Steve Gurley. If ever there was a more direct link. Also: no mention of 138 Trek yet?
As for undisputed's earlier championing of the breaks and breakstep side, okay, yes, Skinnz tune "Corner" from the Our Sound LP was decent, but hardly definitive (!) - I saw Dave Q draw for it last November in the basement of Rothko going b2b with Joe Nice the night after Kode 9 played (he didn't mix into it though, had to kill a Mystikz tune with the start/stop switch but hey, fair play) and it sounded pretty darned good, as I recall. Regarding Rag & Bone, can't say that I've followed the releases this year, but earlier, the Babylon EP by Noyeahno had about one good tune on it ("I've killed a lot of people"), Warlock's "Full Tilt" was a decent little banger. On the breakstep or "underground breaks" tip (remember that term, anyone, anyone?), certainly the Toasty releases on Hot Flush as well as the S&D (HF 03) and Slaughter Mob (HF03) were really splendid tracks; I really liked the Slaughter Mob vs. Search and Destroy tunes on Halo Beats 01 as well.
But that wasn't where the scene was headed . . . what I don't understand about undisputed's posts on this thread is the attempt to re-write the whole 'ardkore continuum in order to delete 2-step and garage in favor of nu-skool breaks. As Logos and Tim F have pointed out, you won't find many sympathizers for that view on dissensus. It is a very, very idiosyncratic view, I would think. Don't forget, two and three years ago people were talking about *grime* in relation to the ardkore continuum - see Woebot's old posts on 'UK Bounce' and the discussions in the dissensus archives where dubstep was still referred to as "the forward>> sound"!
Anyway. Two more painfully obvious references. Steve Gurley. If ever there was a more direct link. Also: no mention of 138 Trek yet?
What's your point, mate? You requested some tunes that "...best exemplify [the] natural progression of the continuum from jungle to 2 step." From what you've posted in this thread it's clear to even me that you're pointlessly pontificating without the knowledge to back it up.
I mean:
the undisputed truth
Banned
Precious Cuts said:
tate said:
I'm actually picking up on the continuum of breakbeat in UK electronica not trying to rewrite the 'hardcore continuum' to exclude 2step/garage. It follows more naturally to slow down d'n'b/jungle breaks to get nu skool/ glitchcore breaks then cross over to breakstep which took into account the 2step/garage influence with what Darqwan, Zed Bias and even Deekline were doing and from there to the fullstepping side of dubstep like the Storming and Hotflush camps and their respective sister labels dubpolice and scuba.
The evidence for nu skool to breakstep to dubstep is in the sounds of people like protocol X, toasty, boxcutter and the alter egos of quiet storm/caspa and search n destroy/ scarecrow. More breaksy than dub and not much 2step influence.
As for Skinnz being definitive. I'm not suggesting that, merely that i think nu skoolers and breaksteppas working in the same beat range as dubstep without halving the beat should produce a more steppier and fuller sound than d'n'b crossoverers. This is just an intuition I have based on Freq Nasty soon to enter the dubstep fray. Remember he too made early jungle. Once Freq gets on board and if he cracks it then maybe Aquasky and Quest might follow suit Baobinga to my knowledge was jsut the first. It's definitely the better option than plod.
I'd be silly to exclude the 2step/garage progression to dark garage and dubstep as defined by the halfstep beat. The other thing I should define is that i've always made the distinction of 2step as being the light fluffy, cafe muzak, r'n'b type of stuff characterised by wookie and Mj cole and being mainly musically vocal driven as opposed to the more street sounding garage MC driven stuff like ms dynamite/sticky and so solid/oxide.
If there were more 2step sounding stuff presently around within dubstep apart from Burial I might think different but sadly there isn't.
john eden
male pale and stale
I think that might be slightly different, then. The UK breakbeat continuum would also have to include stuff like UK hip hop, hip house, coldcut's cut and paste bizness, trip hop and... big beat.
Nu skool breaks can only really be seen in the context of a reaction to big beat in my view. We can probably argue about whether big beat is part of the continuum but I think it is a different beast.
Interesting thread though.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
What I don't really understand is the very binary approach that people seem to use - surely it's possible to accept a nu-skool breaks connection to dubstep without denying that dubstep is essentially an evolution of 2-step? And to recognize that junglists had a big influence on the direction of speed garage without viewing it purely as the next step in a continuum from ardkore and jungle but also as a development of US garage and RnB.
My problem with the idea of hardcore continuum as stretching from 1992 (or whenever) to the present day is that it seems to push people into the assumption that 'nuum sounds are the only ones that count, and that 'nuum producers only ever listen to 'nuum sounds, so the very idea that nu-skool breaks influenced dubstep becomes a priori ridiculous.
the undisputed truth
Banned
If the UK breakbeat continuum started somewhere it was probably with Madchester, stone roses, charlatans, happy mondays, candyflip et al and hiphouse, cold cut, the beatmasters and bomb the bass. Combine those elements and you get the big beat of chemical brothers, freddie fresh and fatboyslim. Substitute the indy guitar pop of madchester with the industrial noise element and you get the hardcore of hardknox and early prodigy. Most of that was running conteporanoeusly with Shut up and Dance seminal early works and rebel MC who was hip house before tribal base and congo natty.
Where I think nu school took over from techstep in the continuum was in the glitchy production of the wunderkind of breaks for his time and still prolific Dave Tipper follwed by Si Begg in his many guises, most notably buckfunk 3000 and SI futures and of course Freq Nasty. The labels there were as previously mentioned botchit n scarper, rennie pilgrems TCR and tippers own Fuel of which Stormfield and combat can trace a direct lineage too. They were a hell of a lot closer to d'n'b/jungle or bigbeat than 2step if you follow the breakbeat continuum and easier to continue on to breakstep through labels like rat records, hardcorebeats and cyberfunk.
Thanks tate for the Reynolds and Woebot pieces. The thing is eneff I've found out more from this thread than I have about what the 'nuum is and how it is percieved than by many others just referencing it. The other points I've made are just my unique perspective and not the undisputed truth.
I still stand by my opinion that there is more breaks influence in dubstep than 2step. Unless of course you discount the hotflush and storming camps as not being dubstep which limits it to just halfstep. Maybe with Jay da flex Ghost trax being ressurected we might see more steppiness added. I do hope so. I would also state that there is nothing hardcore about cheesy 2step
john eden
male pale and stale
Hmmm pre-88 you had stuff like Meat Beat Manifesto, Renegade Soundwave, Mark Stewart & The Maffia, Tackhead etc all of who were in some way connected with the industrial scene.
Didn't T-Power famously "jump ship" and go nu-skool as well? I have to say I thought most of the music was rubbish (Booming Back Atcha excepted, and maybe some of the late 90s SUAD stuff) and a lot of London clubs began to get very boring around then. Or maybe I just got old...
"Cheesy 2-step" seems to me to fit in just as well as cheesy raver tunes, happy hardcore etc? Or is it not the cheesiness which is the issue?
The Bug stuff I think is the best new incarnation of the nuum. Why can't more people copy him instead of copying Loefah, eh?
john eden
male pale and stale
It's quite an interesting exercise, drawing all these lines.
For example I can see why Paul Meme is trying to join up the dots between Saxon Studio International and dubstep via SUAD etc. Indeed I am sure a lot of dubstep fans and producers are quite keen as being seen as the carriers of that torch. But I don't quite see it myself and it's not just because I don't really like most of the music.
It's good to have something to aspire to... but I think there is a danger in carting off the surface elements (samples, calling yourself a "soundsystem", patois titles for tunes etc) and not actually immersing yourself in the complexities of what the 80s reggae scene was actually like.
Similarly all these bands who are retro- post-punk have all the angular guitars but none of the politics, or appreciation for other scenes. Where is the 2006 version of early On-U Sound? Or "Metal Box"?
Perhaps this is purist of me, but the very real difficulties experienced by people involved with reggae in yesteryear are not afaik what the dubstep scene is going through now. Things move on, even in reggae (!). Perhaps if dubstep was aiming for a syncretic dialogue with UK or JA reggae as it is in 2006, then this would be less of a concern for me, I dunno.
Off the soapbox for now.
For example I can see why Paul Meme is trying to join up the dots between Saxon Studio International and dubstep via SUAD etc. Indeed I am sure a lot of dubstep fans and producers are quite keen as being seen as the carriers of that torch. But I don't quite see it myself and it's not just because I don't really like most of the music.
It's good to have something to aspire to... but I think there is a danger in carting off the surface elements (samples, calling yourself a "soundsystem", patois titles for tunes etc) and not actually immersing yourself in the complexities of what the 80s reggae scene was actually like.
Similarly all these bands who are retro- post-punk have all the angular guitars but none of the politics, or appreciation for other scenes. Where is the 2006 version of early On-U Sound? Or "Metal Box"?
Perhaps this is purist of me, but the very real difficulties experienced by people involved with reggae in yesteryear are not afaik what the dubstep scene is going through now. Things move on, even in reggae (!). Perhaps if dubstep was aiming for a syncretic dialogue with UK or JA reggae as it is in 2006, then this would be less of a concern for me, I dunno.
Off the soapbox for now.
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the undisputed truth
Banned
Renegade soundwave had some wicked conscious dub style breaks stuff a couple of years ago as Red Star on the 10 kilo label and I still don't understand why that strain wasn't picked up and followed through either, although Tayo has given it a try with limited success.
Yeah, T power putout a wicked nu skool album 'long time dead' on botchit n scarper before hooking up again with shy FX to make wannabe crossover to mainstream d'n'b ??? He did a mean nu skool remix of original nuttah too.
The bug is definitely a man worth following but halfstep of the Loefah variety is much easier to clone for a young producer with no distinct musical heritage to draw on and little talent. Hence the proliferation of wobble bass and less than inspiring minimalist halfstep backbeats
Regarding the cheese factor. It's hard to delineate where 2step becomes garage. I can only make the distinction with the pure MC driven side of garage. There being alot more affinity of harder/darker garage and bashment to the hardcore of the continuum than 2step.
John have you heard Fat Freddies Drop and what DMZ did to one of their tunes - cays crays ?
check out the original on their myspace page and the other on a joe nice mix here
Playlist:
DENNIS BROWN - IF YOU WANT MY LOVIN'
XI - TAKE HEED
HEADHUNTER - THE HAUNTED
JUJU - PUNKS
JUJU - PUNKS - RELOAD
SCUBA - EXPLODE
SACRAMANGA + GHOST - SPIRITS IN THE DANCEHALL (JOENICE VIP)
HIJAK - BUTCHA
SOUTH3RN DU8 - FULLY LOADED (JOENICE VIP)
SOUTH3RN DU8 - FULLY LOADED (JOENICE VIP) RELOAD
MONKEYTEK PRODUCTIONS - LIGHTHOUSE DUB
SOUTH3RN DU8 - TUESDAY NIGHT DUB
CASPA - HEARTS BLEED EYES WATER
BENGA - WALKING BASS
BENGA - WALKING BASS - RELOAD
BENGA - WALKING BASS - RELOAD2
SLT MOB - STALKER
SLT MOB - STALKER - RELOAD
SKREAM - ASSUMPTIONS
DIGITAL MYSTIKZ - STEPPERS STONE
KROMESTAR - EASE UP DUB
FAT FREDDY'S DROP - CAYS CRAYS (DIGITAL MYSTIKZ REMIX)
FAT FREDDY'S DROP - CAYS CRAYS (DIGITAL MYSTIKZ REMIX) - RELOAD
PINCH - DESERTED ISLAND
BLACKDOWN - MANTIS
Ok so it's not the UK/JA reggae connection but polynesians have always had an affinity towards reggae worth exploring. I too have often lamented the lack of politics in music. I want my rebel music, I want my Bob Marleys. I want to hear people chant down babylon and chase the crazy ballheads. Digital Mystikz come closest politically with their titles but without the prose and poetry it still feels wanting and with scuba the music approximates but once again falls short of any political stance.
Yeah, T power putout a wicked nu skool album 'long time dead' on botchit n scarper before hooking up again with shy FX to make wannabe crossover to mainstream d'n'b ??? He did a mean nu skool remix of original nuttah too.
The bug is definitely a man worth following but halfstep of the Loefah variety is much easier to clone for a young producer with no distinct musical heritage to draw on and little talent. Hence the proliferation of wobble bass and less than inspiring minimalist halfstep backbeats
Regarding the cheese factor. It's hard to delineate where 2step becomes garage. I can only make the distinction with the pure MC driven side of garage. There being alot more affinity of harder/darker garage and bashment to the hardcore of the continuum than 2step.
John have you heard Fat Freddies Drop and what DMZ did to one of their tunes - cays crays ?
check out the original on their myspace page and the other on a joe nice mix here
Playlist:
DENNIS BROWN - IF YOU WANT MY LOVIN'
XI - TAKE HEED
HEADHUNTER - THE HAUNTED
JUJU - PUNKS
JUJU - PUNKS - RELOAD
SCUBA - EXPLODE
SACRAMANGA + GHOST - SPIRITS IN THE DANCEHALL (JOENICE VIP)
HIJAK - BUTCHA
SOUTH3RN DU8 - FULLY LOADED (JOENICE VIP)
SOUTH3RN DU8 - FULLY LOADED (JOENICE VIP) RELOAD
MONKEYTEK PRODUCTIONS - LIGHTHOUSE DUB
SOUTH3RN DU8 - TUESDAY NIGHT DUB
CASPA - HEARTS BLEED EYES WATER
BENGA - WALKING BASS
BENGA - WALKING BASS - RELOAD
BENGA - WALKING BASS - RELOAD2
SLT MOB - STALKER
SLT MOB - STALKER - RELOAD
SKREAM - ASSUMPTIONS
DIGITAL MYSTIKZ - STEPPERS STONE
KROMESTAR - EASE UP DUB
FAT FREDDY'S DROP - CAYS CRAYS (DIGITAL MYSTIKZ REMIX)
FAT FREDDY'S DROP - CAYS CRAYS (DIGITAL MYSTIKZ REMIX) - RELOAD
PINCH - DESERTED ISLAND
BLACKDOWN - MANTIS
Ok so it's not the UK/JA reggae connection but polynesians have always had an affinity towards reggae worth exploring. I too have often lamented the lack of politics in music. I want my rebel music, I want my Bob Marleys. I want to hear people chant down babylon and chase the crazy ballheads. Digital Mystikz come closest politically with their titles but without the prose and poetry it still feels wanting and with scuba the music approximates but once again falls short of any political stance.
john eden
male pale and stale
apologies to all for the derail...
LOL. Everyone has to start somewhere I guess...
re: 2step it is really isn't my field so I dunno.
I've heard a lot about them, but not checked them out yet - they seem to be pretty popular with a lot of proper reggae fans so I'll move them up the list of people to investigate now!
Yeah I remember some of the Hamilton crew coming over and forming a mutual bond over Iration Steppas in about 1998.
Politically I dunno if it always has to be the lyrics (tho that helps for me) I think the reggae scene used to be in direct confrontation with the state and reactionaries on a regular basis.
For example dances getting raided by the cops, closed down, not being able to play anywhere except church halls or community centres, everyone with locks being pulled over by the police ('Suss laws'), not being played on the radio, aggression from fascist groups, having to store and maintain a whole soundsystem in a garage on a council estate, no prospect of a job, etc.
All of this and more lead to a situation where entire economies and cultures developed out of a resistance to oppression. Perhaps that was concsiouly antagonistic or perhaps it was just a safety valve under pressure - a safe space in a hostile world.
Despite not being a religious man I can see the relevance of rastafari and black consciousness in that situation.
A soundsystem is more than a way of playing records. There are specific reasons why soundsystems operated in JA (economic, but also a lack of access to uptown clubs with PAs etc). "Blues dances" in UK houses came about because of the history of soundsystems in JA but also because it was impossible to put on reggae nights in most nightclubs.
The reason why a lot of people these days who call themselves "a soundsystem" don't have a load of speaker boxes and a van is because it is more convenient and cheaper. And because the music they play can now be whacked out over the internet and usually gets a regular slot in nice nightclubs. This is all for the good but I think hanging on the coat tails of the work of others is a bad idea if they have been through an inordinate amount of effort in very difficult times, usually for little financial reward.
Similarly there are a number of objections to be made about using rasta imagery in your samples/titles if you are not actually rasta, let alone if you are white.
Or of relatively well-off white blokes sampling impoverished reggae artists and not paying them.
I'm not denying that soundsystem culture and reggae have been a huge influence, but I think there is a discussion to be had about respect and crediting that influence vs ripping off.
The bug is definitely a man worth following but halfstep of the Loefah variety is much easier to clone for a young producer with no distinct musical heritage to draw on and little talent. Hence the proliferation of wobble bass and less than inspiring minimalist halfstep backbeats
LOL. Everyone has to start somewhere I guess...
re: 2step it is really isn't my field so I dunno.
I've heard a lot about them, but not checked them out yet - they seem to be pretty popular with a lot of proper reggae fans so I'll move them up the list of people to investigate now!
Yeah I remember some of the Hamilton crew coming over and forming a mutual bond over Iration Steppas in about 1998.
Politically I dunno if it always has to be the lyrics (tho that helps for me) I think the reggae scene used to be in direct confrontation with the state and reactionaries on a regular basis.
For example dances getting raided by the cops, closed down, not being able to play anywhere except church halls or community centres, everyone with locks being pulled over by the police ('Suss laws'), not being played on the radio, aggression from fascist groups, having to store and maintain a whole soundsystem in a garage on a council estate, no prospect of a job, etc.
All of this and more lead to a situation where entire economies and cultures developed out of a resistance to oppression. Perhaps that was concsiouly antagonistic or perhaps it was just a safety valve under pressure - a safe space in a hostile world.
Despite not being a religious man I can see the relevance of rastafari and black consciousness in that situation.
A soundsystem is more than a way of playing records. There are specific reasons why soundsystems operated in JA (economic, but also a lack of access to uptown clubs with PAs etc). "Blues dances" in UK houses came about because of the history of soundsystems in JA but also because it was impossible to put on reggae nights in most nightclubs.
The reason why a lot of people these days who call themselves "a soundsystem" don't have a load of speaker boxes and a van is because it is more convenient and cheaper. And because the music they play can now be whacked out over the internet and usually gets a regular slot in nice nightclubs. This is all for the good but I think hanging on the coat tails of the work of others is a bad idea if they have been through an inordinate amount of effort in very difficult times, usually for little financial reward.
Similarly there are a number of objections to be made about using rasta imagery in your samples/titles if you are not actually rasta, let alone if you are white.
Or of relatively well-off white blokes sampling impoverished reggae artists and not paying them.
I'm not denying that soundsystem culture and reggae have been a huge influence, but I think there is a discussion to be had about respect and crediting that influence vs ripping off.
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matt b
Indexing all opinion
to briefly continue the de-rail:
the real problem i have with this is that the 'torch' has continued to be handed down throughout the 80s-90s-00s (disciples, iration, conscious sounds, vibronics etc etc), and future-dubstep fans were not on the whole aware of this- highlighted by the continued insistence that dubstep 'is the heaviest' etc.
i guess that many dubstep fans are unaware of uk soundsystem culture full stop and having been to a couple of dances which borrow bits from it, now claim dubstep to be a new thing- or worse- the creators of it. which leads to the reggae getting sidelined.
i know this is not true of dmz, but i get the feeling they're one offs.
heard a demo of a simon scott dubstep tune on saturday which you might like john-paul definately will!- loefah style drums w/iration style bass and a nice roots vocal sample throughout (couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but it was in the style of barry brown etc). more reggae pillage?
the real problem i have with this is that the 'torch' has continued to be handed down throughout the 80s-90s-00s (disciples, iration, conscious sounds, vibronics etc etc), and future-dubstep fans were not on the whole aware of this- highlighted by the continued insistence that dubstep 'is the heaviest' etc.
i guess that many dubstep fans are unaware of uk soundsystem culture full stop and having been to a couple of dances which borrow bits from it, now claim dubstep to be a new thing- or worse- the creators of it. which leads to the reggae getting sidelined.
i know this is not true of dmz, but i get the feeling they're one offs.
heard a demo of a simon scott dubstep tune on saturday which you might like john-paul definately will!- loefah style drums w/iration style bass and a nice roots vocal sample throughout (couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but it was in the style of barry brown etc). more reggae pillage?
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