N
nomadologist
Guest
x factors like income don't "skew" results--they reflect real populations.
Just what the hell's going on in London?
- Thread starter Mr. Tea
- Start date
The whole point of writing in those terms is not to generalise, merely to write that, on that specific micro-level, those observations have been made.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
The purely economic factor is one thing, certainly. I happen to believe (hoary old conservative that I am, apparently) that another important factor is that a supportive and involved father figure present during children's upbringing (whether or not he's the biological father) means the offspring are more lilkely to grow up into well-rounded, responsible and ultimately happy adults.
Note that I am not saying "Dads at any price" - obviously no Dad at all is better than a neglectful, abusive or criminal one.
Edit: Guybrush, what does that phrase mean?
Note that I am not saying "Dads at any price" - obviously no Dad at all is better than a neglectful, abusive or criminal one.
Edit: Guybrush, what does that phrase mean?
N
nomadologist
Guest
What? In what terms? The whole point of studying populations and accounting for variables like income is to be sure you reflect actual information instead of trying to "generalise" the truth by mapping the study of one population based on its shared income variable onto the entire population of the world.
N
nomadologist
Guest
ceteris paribus is used in economics and law to mean "all other things remaining equal." you would use it to compare two examples of something while limiting the factor you want to discuss. it DOES NOT apply to the study of populations.
N
nomadologist
Guest
How would you go about measuring "well-roundedness" or "happiness"? Unfortunately, the only measure we have of the "unhappiness" of single parent families is the tendency of their children toward crime and other anti-social behaviors. At least in studies I'm finding...
Guybrush
Dittohead
Just so you know, I don’t use it to be hoity-toity, it is an extremely useful concept which is used all the time in economics.
Ceteris Paribus
N
nomadologist
Guest
It just doesn't apply to scientific studies of populations, Guybrush. The entire point of scientific studies is to find variable factors and *not* to isolate them so as to find correlations and determine causality.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That wasn't my intention, I just hadn't heard it before. Ta for the link!
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I've heard it linked to a whole host of social indicators, everything from performance at school to mental health, substance abuse statistics and possibly even life expectancy.
After all, why wouldn't having your father around be benificial when you're growing up? Provided your parents have a reasonable relationship, you can learn about how couples interact and live together; having two parents around means more time for at least one of them to spend with kids, while the other's at work or otherwise busy; a father figure is seen as especially important for boys' development, in terms of learning social boundaries and rules, and perhaps families with a dad are more likely to get involved in a sport of some kind and therefore get a bit of exercise, which is obviously going to have a big effect on health in later life.
N
nomadologist
Guest
Maybe, I don't think having a father in a family is bad, I just think that any male role model who is psychologically healthy and directly involved can substitute.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I haven't heard you say this before. I agree, but I think in the case of most families that's still going to be the actual father.
Guybrush
Dittohead
I don’t really understand what you mean by this.
As a side note, the study of populations ought to be quite similar to macroeconomics. With this in mind, I find it odd that the methods beloved by analysers in the latter field—allegedly—should be unfit for use in the former field. You seem to have a very rigid view of what should be deemed ‘scientific’.
N
nomadologist
Guest
I don't have a narrow view of what's "scientific" at all, I'm surrounded by it every day, I was since I was a kid (my own father was an inorganic chemist). If I'm "rigid" about it, that may be because the scientific method has very rigid limitations/guidelines. (You can't just take data, interpret it however you like, and call it "science"--experiments need to be conducted with proper "controls" in place...)
I'm saying that there is no way to take away the income factor from a study of the effects of single parenthood on the general population if you want to reflect the reality of the entire population in your findings.
I'm saying that there is no way to take away the income factor from a study of the effects of single parenthood on the general population if you want to reflect the reality of the entire population in your findings.
Guybrush
Dittohead
I agree. But the income factor is not the whole story.
N
nomadologist
Guest
No, but it's significant, and I think a lack of resources is the most oppressive thing for low-income families and the cause of a lot of pain and discomfort and inconvenience. Being poor is demoralizing. It's indignifying. And (in the U.S.) the odds are so stacked against people like children of single mothers on welfare who live in the ghetto that it's literally a one-in-a-million chance that you'll go on to succeed if you are born in these circumstances.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Every British city has what might euphemistically be called 'less desirable' areas, but I don't think we have 'ghettos' as such, like many American cities do. Where ghetto-type situations do exist, it tends to be due to immigrant populations clustering around areas where families they know already live, which is sometimes compounded by people not learning English or generally integrating. Although I think Britain is relatively well integrated* compared to a lot of countries, such as France, which has horrendous levels of segregation.
*then again, I'm talking mainly about my own experience of London here
*then again, I'm talking mainly about my own experience of London here
N
nomadologist
Guest
Most of the ghettos in the U.S. are populated by black Americans who've been here for many generations, but there are more and more hispanic ghettos and in Brooklyn we have really bad neighborhoods that aren't quite ghettos but might as well be for lots of different immigrant groups. Crown Heights is the one with mostly Atlantic islander immigrants and one of my friends who lived there was out at 3AM once (luckily in the safety of a car) and saw three men drag a dead body (stiff from rigor mortis) into the back of a van and speed off...
N
nomadologist
Guest
this is what i've been trying to tell the, tht