Modern d'n'b is rubbish - tune ID and a moan from an old man

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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
g-real said:
i think jungle's got to the state it's in because most people producing the music are djs and it seems the reason they became djs is because they read about it.
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Do you mean the type of DJs that have no real grounding in music? They just want to compulsively replicate some idea of a clubbing experience, or just get some cash and some coke. They don't want things to progress in any way because they don't understand it. This doesn't only affect jungle/d&b. Trouble comes when it gets popular. Also when music becomes generic it's possible for more people to make it.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
i would love to hear more African D'n'B or jungle.

right now it seems they do everything better over there: stateside hiphop stale? afro hiphop just full to the brim with mad ideas and flavor. and sooooo many different styles! euro-house becoming formulaic and too mechanical? afro house just got that warm production and sweet aching melodies... not to mention the MC's and singers come correct.
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
noel emits said:
Do you mean the type of DJs that have no real grounding in music? They just want to compulsively replicate some idea of a clubbing experience, or just get some cash and some coke.
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either way the argument doesn't make much sense to me... most of the big names have either been there since day (andy c, hype, dillinja, ss, randall etc) or they're producers first and stared DJing regularly when their productions got popular (twisted individual, generation dub etc)

besides which, there's plenty of dancing going on. go to fabric or any big dnb rave.. sweaty drugged up rave holes all of them. the problem isn't with people not dancing, and it's certainly not with people reading - that trainspotter vibe died years ago when jump up took over the raves again... I'm not sure I know anyone who became a DJ primarily because they read about it - sure, maybe to get girls, take drugs and travel... but because they read about it? there are seriously far more destructive elements in this scene than journalists. if anything it's a couple of select journalists and web forums that have helped kickstart a real scene for leftfield drum and bass, something that just saying "dance motherfuckers!" could never achieve anymore.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
UFO over easy said:
either way the argument doesn't make much sense to me... most of the big names have either been there since day (andy c, hype, dillinja, ss, randall etc) or they're producers first and stared DJing regularly when their productions got popular (twisted individual, generation dub etc)

besides which, there's plenty of dancing going on. go to fabric or any big dnb rave.. sweaty drugged up rave holes all of them. the problem isn't with people not dancing, and it's certainly not with people reading - that trainspotter vibe died years ago when jump up took over the raves again... I'm not sure I know anyone who became a DJ primarily because they read about it - sure, maybe to get girls, take drugs and travel... but because they read about it? there are seriously far more destructive elements in this scene than journalists. if anything it's a couple of select journalists and web forums that have helped kickstart a real scene for leftfield drum and bass, something that just saying "dance motherfuckers!" could never achieve anymore.
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that's how i felt about it but yo, i ain't gon hold the man accountable word for word na mean? he a solid innovative and diverse producer, and let's leave it at that. and by his own admission don't think much of journalism so i ain't gon pick apart the reasons he gives for the sorry-ass state of Nu D'n'B the same way i would pick it apart if one of you said it.

but now we on it, you're right, lack of dancing is certainly not the, or even a, problem; and journalism certainly did not kill D'n'B...
 
Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
UFO over easy said:
besides which, there's plenty of dancing going on. go to fabric or any big dnb rave.. sweaty drugged up rave holes all of them. the problem isn't with people not dancing, and it's certainly not with people reading - that trainspotter vibe died years ago when jump up took over the raves again...
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What pisses me off is that I actually really want music that makes me dance rather than making me scratch my chin but the simplified beats and linear structures that took over (according to conventional wisdom) because "mashed breaks were too hard to dance to" don't seem to get me feeling wired and on-edge enough to actually start moving.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
Slothrop said:
get me feeling wired and on-edge enough to actually start moving.
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fuck. you need to be wired and on-edge In-Order-To-Dance™?

there's something horrible about that but i have't the time to explain exactly how or why right now...
 
D

dominic

Beast of Burden
adruu said:
OMG its GCG! =)

I'm an ass for speaking for everyone on here, but I don't think one reasonable person would even connect the work you did with the drudgery of what DnB has become.

One of the few old hardcore tracks I still have in permanent rotation is Anything from 91! Still love it. Big up you, especially for branching out and doing different things...
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welcome gerald! and, yes, the Sunshine EP is where it's at
 
N

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
UFO over easy said:
either way the argument doesn't make much sense to me...
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Well it seems I was talking about something a bit different. Still you can't deny that sucker Djs exist and are sometimes very popular. But am I missing something here - where was g-real laying into journalists?
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
noel emits said:
Well it seems I was talking about something a bit different.
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No, I think you got the gist of what he was saying pretty well..

noel emits said:
Still you can't deny that sucker Djs exist and are sometimes very popular. But am I missing something here - where was g-real laying into journalists?
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"i think jungle's got to the state it's in because most people producing the music are djs and it seems the reason they became djs is because they read about it.

in a few years time, if we are not careful, we'll be dancing to a magazine!"

obviously sucker DJs do exist; I just think this particular explanation for it is extremely dubious for all the reasons I gave upthread. To become a successful DJ just isn't as simple as reading about it and thinking "that might be fun". The scene is too locked down for that. Unless you're already successful, or your productions are getting big, you may as well give up any dreams of stardom - no matter how many magazines you've read.
 
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Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
zhao said:
fuck. you need to be wired and on-edge In-Order-To-Dance™?

there's something horrible about that but i have't the time to explain exactly how or why right now...
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It's not that that's the only thing that makes me want to dance, but it's the one that tends to apply at dnb nights - infectiously funky grooves are also in short supply in modern dnb. A lot of dnb nights have just left me thinking "I could run on the spot at 180bpm, but I don't really feel any urge to."

I'm looking forward to Remarc and Bizzy B at Technicality at the end of the month, though.
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
UFO over easy said:
No, I think you got the gist of what he was saying pretty well.
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Well I don't go to enough mainstream d&b events to know if the argument applies or not but my impressions would concur with what you said above - I still see a lot of big names from way back on fliers and posters. I was just wondering about those mechanical jocks that dutifully spin out the weeks big releases / promos and get solid bookings but don't dare try anything untested.
 
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bassnation

the abyss
Slothrop said:
What pisses me off is that I actually really want music that makes me dance rather than making me scratch my chin but the simplified beats and linear structures that took over (according to conventional wisdom) because "mashed breaks were too hard to dance to" don't seem to get me feeling wired and on-edge enough to actually start moving.
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i think theres a balance to be found, which has been lost imo. when the breakbeat manipulation really started in earnest it was about adding more trippiness to the productions but in the confines of the genre, i.e. keeping it funky and rolling. personally as much as i love producers like bizzi b that choppage thing can be taken too far. i think the 93 style stuff was the right balance - still looped but also chopped to fuck - but not to the point where it made people scratch their heads on the dancefloor.

i also don't think the current state of dnb is to do with djs being cokeheads (aren't they all, whatever the genre?) or getting into it for the money - more to do with a negative effect from the whole scenius thing. the jungle scene has always been very single-minded. unfortunately they've gone so far down a dead end that it seems impossible for anyone to break free. the whole trend was to go faster and faster, someone has to have the guts to slow it right down again. i don't even see the marginal acts which people like ben ufo champion doing that.
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
noel - the tunes might've been better then but you presumably had loads of those dj-by-numbers dudes back in the day as well... they're just amateurs, and are driven by the scene not vice versa - they're so simple it's hard to be angry with them really. The real evil is the big DJs who perpetuate that scene-first mentality - the folks I was talking about before - boo to them.

bassnation - I hardly champion them, I'm not really involved with dnb at all these days. I just type too much :) I spent so much time with drum and bass that it doesn't take any time for me to sift through the drek and buy what I like once every couple of months. Most of the producers I buy these days are making tunes around 168-172. I guess from a 93 perspective that's pretty quick but it's nothing compared to mainstream dnb, especially once it's been pitched up to +6 in the rave.
 
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Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
bassnation said:
i think theres a balance to be found, which has been lost imo. when the breakbeat manipulation really started in earnest it was about adding more trippiness to the productions but in the confines of the genre, i.e. keeping it funky and rolling.
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No argument there. It's just about having that bit of unpredictability to keep you on your toes.
the whole trend was to go faster and faster, someone has to have the guts to slow it right down again. i don't even see the marginal acts which people like ben ufo champion doing that.
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http://www.subvertcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38815
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
UFO over easy said:
bassnation - I hardly champion them, I'm not really involved with dnb at all these days. I just type too much :) I spent so much time with drum and bass that it doesn't take any time for me to sift through the drek and buy what I like once every couple of months. Most of the producers I buy these days are making tunes around 168-172. I guess from a 93 perspective that's pretty quick but it's nothing compared to mainstream dnb, especially once it's been pitched up to +6 in the rave.
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fucking hell, really, pitched up +6 from 172??? too old for gabba these days.
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
G

g-real

New member
Slothrop said:
What pisses me off is that I actually really want music that makes me dance rather than making me scratch my chin but the simplified beats and linear structures that took over (according to conventional wisdom) because "mashed breaks were too hard to dance to" don't seem to get me feeling wired and on-edge enough to actually start moving.
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spot on!

theres something about an off key melody and an out of balance rhythm that takes you out of this reality that i miss with a lot of the music from these step-time programmers

i'll let you in on a little bit of what i did with black secret technology - there was no pushing squares around on cubase

i was performing breaks into a sequencer and then layering them onto tape using this old african / jamaican thing they call rhythm
 
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