"Chav - the Musical"

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nomadologist

Guest
tate said:
No, it is not an equivalent, because in a country (US) where millions upon millions of people from the south to the midwest to the northwest to the southwest etc, live in non-urban areas, the word 'white trash' can mean almost anything, depending on where you are and who's using it. To the city person, farmers may look like 'white trash'; to the farmers, poorer town kids can be called 'white trash'; to the rural citizen, badly behaved suburban white kids imitating bling culture can be called 'white trash'; and on and on and on ... there's a whole slew of regional terms for subdividing - rednecks, hoods, hoosiers, townies, hicks, and on and on and on - 'white trash' is just a stupid, noxious generalization/insult/cliche available to pretty much anyone to describe very, very different groups of styles, behaviors, local cultures ... there is no definitive content or stylistic signifiers ... nomad mentioned metal and 80s rock, but rural lower classes listen to country, classic rock, and hip-hop too, you just can't generalize ... my impression is that "chav" is much more specific than what I am describing above.
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i guess this is all true...there are regionally specific ideas of what "white trash" means
 
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nomadologist

Guest
http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/33354221

Rapper Jay-Z decides to boycott Cristal

06/15/2006 5:15 PM, AP


Rappers have long proclaimed their love for Cristal, frequently mentioning the high-end champagne in songs and popping the corks of the clear, gold-labeled bottles in music videos and at nightclubs.

But the makers of Cristal don't seem to feel the same way about hip-hop — at least that's one rapper-turned-record executive Jay-Z sees it.

Now president and chief executive officer of Def Jam Records, the multiplatinum rapper has decided to boycott his once-beloved bubbly over comments from Frederic Rouzaud, managing director of Louis Roederer, the company that produces it.

In The Economist magazine, Rouzaud said the company viewed the affection for his company's champagne from rappers and their fans with "curiosity and serenity."

Asked by the magazine if the association between Cristal and the "bling lifestyle" could be detrimental, Rouzaud replied:

"That's a good question, but what can we do? We can't forbid people from buying it. I'm sure Dom Perignon or Krug would be delighted to have their business."

The comments left a bad taste in Jay-Z's mouth. The rapper said he would pull Cristal from his small chain of popular sports lounges — where bottles of Cristal sell for $450 and $600 — as well as from his personal flutes.

"It has come to my attention that the managing director of Cristal, Frederic Rouzaud views the `hip-hop' culture as 'unwelcome attention,'" Jay-Z said. "I view his comments as racist and will no longer support any of his products through any of my various brands including the 40/40 Club nor in my personal life."

Jay-Z plans to replace Cristal — which a club spokesman said it could never stock enough of — with Krug and Dom Perignon at the Manhattan and Atlantic City locations of his 40/40 Club. (There are plans for clubs in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Singapore and Hong Kong, according to the club's Web site.)
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nomadologist

Guest
Mr. Tea said:
Maybe, but just because you're intent on failing school, that doesn't really justify bullying other kids to make sure they fail too.

And no matter how stupid you are, you won't fail as badly if you put some effort in than if you just give up. It's practically impossible to unintentionally fail a GCSE these days; I mean, if you have actually tryied, you'd have to be borderline retarded not to get a C or a D.
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bullying other kids to fail school? huh?

you're ignoring the fact that most poor kids from inner city projects, should they bother doing extremely well in high school, still would have little to no chance to be able to afford college, so it's really not worth their time or attention. might as well start work construction at 16, you'll make more money than you would sitting around waiting for a lucrative degree to fall into your lap.

i notice a lot of women in the projects work as nurses in my neighborhood...they must be the ones who do really well in school compared to their peers
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
nomadologist said:
there are tons of articles online citing execs from burberry, cristal, hennessey tons of these brands complaining about it. i'll dig some up, but i remember reading quite a few of em
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That may be what they say, but going online with that stuff is great publicity too. I suspect it's also calculated to influence their new customers too, telling them they can't have it because it's too classy.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
Maybe. I doubt getting boycotted by Jay-Z won them tons of new customers, though.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
In the 80s, there was a big difference between hip-hop (a nascent genre at the time and considered still "underground" for the most part) and top 40 r&b and pop.

Edit: maybe you didn't say that, but you responded to me with it, and I was talking about hip-hop.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
nomadologist said:
In the 80s, there was a big difference between hip-hop (a nascent genre at the time and considered still "underground" for the most part) and top 40 r&b and pop.

Edit: maybe you didn't say that, but you responded to me with it, and I was talking about hip-hop.
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Here's what you said:
Rural kids in remote areas of the US midwest were listening to hip-hop in the eighties.
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
nomadologist said:
you're ignoring the fact that most poor kids from inner city projects, should they bother doing extremely well in high school, still would have little to no chance to be able to afford college, so it's really not worth their time or attention. might as well start work construction at 16, you'll make more money than you would sitting around waiting for a lucrative degree to fall into your lap.
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This doesn't excuse deliberate ignorance and not even trying. Some people are made for construction, some want to do other things.
 
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nomadologist

Guest
noel emits said:
This doesn't excuse deliberate ignorance and not even trying. Some people are made for construction, some want to do other things.
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excuse? so poor black people live in the projects because they just don't work hard enough?

i've heard this argument one too many times on dissensus, and it's stupid.
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Well maybe we're talking at cultural cross-purposes but I'm talking about an actual attitude I know all too well here in the UK, even among people that are not really all that poor at all.

And I didn't say it had anything to do with their position.

Are you excusing willful ignorance? If you are you are part of the problem. You claim to be quite educated, how can you even be saying that? What kind of warped outlook is that?
 
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nomadologist

Guest
i'm more annoyed by people who have all the privilege in the world, and then do nothing with it, than i am with people who have none and don't bother trying
 
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nomadologist

Guest
Huge where? It had barely begun. Nothing is "huge" in the U.S. that doesn't make it onto the charts. So you're wrong.
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
nomadologist said:
willful ignorance of what?
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I'm talking about a general prevailing attitude of inverted snobbery, anti-intellectualism and accusations of class-betrayal for those that want to educate themselves or be different. Something to do with not keeping it real, not being salt-of-the-earth. It's a dumb self-image that some sectors of British society seem to have bought in to.
 
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noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
nomadologist said:
Huge where? It had barely begun. Nothing is "huge" in the U.S. that doesn't make it onto the charts. So you're wrong.
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Not as big as Jackson but hip-hop and electro songs did hit the charts (White Lines, Walk This Way spring to mind), maybe more so in the UK than the US.

There was a surprising amount of hip-hop on mainstream UK radio in those days too. Many of us kids listening to music around that time were listening to Michael Jackson and hip-hop, that's why I say the fanbase was similar.

I'd also say that stuff can quite easily be huge in the States without being in the charts - because the place is so big.

None of this matters in the context of this thread though really.
 
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