Roiling football blather

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Phaedo

Well-known member
enjoyed ronaldo's pen lol. Schweinsteiger's team talk just before was great, no way was he missing.

Barca... defence definitely needs improving but you gotta remember how close they were to winning. I think their real problem was players lacking their usual clinical quality in front of goal, aside from the penalty Messi would have usually put away at least one of his chances in each game, others guilty as well. they look like they have just run out of steam a bit though, lack the usual inspiration/quality when they needed it. Villa definitely a huge miss. could do with a physical presence to bring off the bench too, could just stick Pique upfront tbf especially with his defending atm.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Yeah, Pique scored vs Inter, didn't he? I think also with Villa they would have won the game vs Chelsea - he just offers that extra something in front of goal that Barca don't seem to have when Messi is being effectively smothered as soon as he gets anywhere near the goal. Can't remember the exact stats, but he broke the deadlock for Spain a couple of times in the World Cup when they were having problems converting their obvious superiority into goals.

That Ronaldo penalty save was epic. Didn't see the whole game unfortunately, but I heard it was great, and that Bayern were playing some superb stuff. Hope they win; there's much to admire in Chelsea's obstinacy, but for it to win the whole tournament will be a bit of an indictment for me, especially when there have been more good attacking sides in the CL than in living memory.
 
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paolo

Mechanical phantoms
I read in the Grauniad today that most Spanish journalists are outraged that anti-football has triumphed over the beautiful game in Chelsea's case. La Liga isn't looking so great now (but then again Bilbao totally spanked Man U, so go figure)
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Madridistas were laughing on Tuesday night, but after yesterday I reckon they'll retreat to extolling the virtues of La Liga/alleged luck of the other leagues.

Clearly the technical standard in La Liga is currently superior to that of the Prem, but then we knew that already. What's surprising is the lack of fight shown by the other English teams apart from Chelsea - Man City and United went out rather meekly, like it was 1996.

Two-legged home-and-away European ties will always encourage anti-football to a certain extent in the away leg if the home leg can be won - what was surprising last night is that Bayern refused to sit back. Commendable but certainly not the only (or indeed the most popular) way to win.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
That's kinda what I was hoping/expecting. I can see why people feel that Barca played better football than Chelsea but I don't understand those who say it was a boring game - it was tense as fuck from what I saw and there were four goals, a penalty, a sending off etc People who complain about the way Chelsea won need to understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat and if you don't like it you need to figure out how to beat it. It's exactly the same as Whinger complaining that Bolton don't lie down and let Arsenal pass through 'em. I love the battle of contrasting styles in football, it's part of what makes it the game that it is.
 
Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
bandshell said:
Barca have looked lost recently. Not just against Chelsea. Seem to be drying up a bit.
Click to expand...
I haven't really seen enough of their games to comment, but could it be that with Barca being such a big force in la liga and the CL and Spain being such a big force in the international game, a lot of people have spent a lot of time thinking very specifically about how to beat that style of play and those players and hence people are finally starting to get the measure of them?
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
(@Rich) Definitely true, although I have loved the fact that over the past few years the best team in the world has also played the most attractive football; as well as an attacking-minded Man U having dominated the Premiership (also the prevalence of Arsenal, Tottenham and Man City when Silva is conducting have been a joy, certainly in comparison to the era of Mourinho's dominance, when I def enjoyed less Prem football). When defensive teams dominate, it's hard to be as enthusiastic, but at the same time there need to be one or two teams playing that style there or thereabouts at the same time, in order to provide that contrast of styles in some of the big games.

As to Barca, have the teams who've beaten them in La Liga (Madrid aside) used catenaccio tactics?
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
Well, yeah, obviously it would be boring beyond belief if two teams lined up against each other like Chelsea on Wednesday night, but where would the sense in that be? The only reason to play in that style is if you feel you're going to be under the cosh. I think in any given league you want there to be a mix of styles (though there may be a prevailing fashion eg four-four-two or something) and some are gonna be more interesting and exciting than others. You have to win with what you have and I think most (not all) fans would rather win 1-0 than lose 7-5 - the problem is when the tactics don't work and you keep losing dour games. I'm pretty sure that over the years the number of defenders increased year on year up to the seventies (don't quote me on that) or so when formations began to look more like what we would recognise today. Then again at one point the offside rule was a lot stricter with it requiring three defenders (or two defenders and a goalie) rather than two.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Barcelona are freakishly good at ball retention (did even, say, 1970s Netherlands/Ajax come anywhere near their percentages?) - has any opposing team come close to getting a 50-50 in possession stats? And, after the demise of this Barcelona team, will they remain an anomaly, or will other coaches elsewhere seek to replicate this way of playing the game, or will they write it off as something you can only even attempt in very specific circumstances with a freakishly talented group of players?

Are there any precedents in European competition for how big, expensive teams such as Inter and Chelsea played at the Nou Camp ie with complete resignation to being attacked for 85 minutes, or is this a genuine innovation (of necessity) by Mourinho?
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
I'm pretty sure that no teams have been able to keep the ball that much at top level consistently. I mean if Man Utd played Deportivo Moron they might have that much of the ball but I don't think teams have done it against those supposedly on the same level as them. Actually I'll take back that "supposedly" - in at least one important sense Chelsea are on the same level as Barca.
It's not just the retention though I think, it's the way they press to win the ball back so quickly - that requires not only talent but extreme fitness. Of course it's kind of a virtuous circle in that a team that hardly ever sees the ball is more likely to fuck up when it finally does get the ball and then it goes straight back to Barca and it starts again. Think the pressing sometimes gets overlooked though.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I think the Morons would adopt 'alternative' tactics against Man U.

Yeah, which is why Mourinho's admission that Inter purposely gave the ball away was a stroke of genius. Turning the whole situation on its head. Would Chelsea have managed it on Weds if someone hadn't preceded them in adopting those (seemingly suicidal but actually eminently sensible) tactics?

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsle...=2000263/clubs/type=possessionperc/index.html
Valencia get the closest to Barca.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
So Guardiola has resigned. Maybe it is the end of an era in some way. Can't blame him I'd say, he's won everything and now it's gone difficult and he looks stressed to fuck. Hard to motivate yourself to do it all again I reckon.
 
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baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Yeah, difficult to have the energy to do it all over again if you ascend right to the top very quickly, I would think. The reason Ferguson has stayed so long at Man U can't be divorced from the struggle he had to get to the top in the first place (7 years or 13 years depending on how you look at it). Having it all initially and only then confronting difficulties - who'd want to do that? Same with Mourinho - win and move on.
 
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