Learning to Play Guitar

[nomadologist]

Recently it was decided that if we (the people I make music with) are going to use a guitar or guitars at all, I will have to be the one to play it/them.

There are several reasons for this but the short one goes: my friends who already play guitar have gotten to the point I have with piano/keyboards, which is to say, far too technically "proper" and "trained". It takes twice the time to unlearn how to play "right" in order to play something good and interesting, we've found, and we don't have forever. This is why I will be not be playing keyboards primarily, either.

So my bf will be teaching me guitar on his vintage stratocaster (sp?) starting this week. Since I play violin, I consider frets cheating, and I'm afraid my hands are too small for this huge thing. The callouses will be bloody at first.

Anyone have any recommendations for learning methods? Or good books on the subject? Anyone live in NY and have a good synth they want to play in a non-band?

Influences will be: conrad schnitzler, klaus schulze, thierry mueller, early tangerine dream, faust, proggy proggy krautrock in general, tg, liaisons dangeureses, ike yard (shout out to polystyle_desu), basic channel, italian disco production, cabaret voltaire, all things psychedelic, hip-hop, you all know my tastes

 

[gek-opel]

This is interesting- are the other guitarists technically too good then, or merely fallen into repetitive habits? It is unfortunate that one you find something that works it is tempting rinse that technique until it gets very tired- the solution is exactly a you say to constantly shift outside of the comfort zone (whatever instrument it is)

You need to think clearly about what kind of guitar style you are aiming for. A modicum of technique is probably all you need before you can start (obv if you want to play in any vaguely idiomatic fashion then fingering and a rudimentary understanding of chord shapes and tunings will be useful). But given that you are primarily (I assume) interested in playing guitar from a creative point of view (rather than learning god-awful covers for a bar band) once the basics are learnt I would just advise writing as much as possible.

I got a book and learnt a few very primitive chord shapes and then set out on my own... let me know how you get on though!

 

[Benny Bunter]

So my bf will be teaching me guitar on his vintage stratocaster (sp?) starting this week. Since I play violin, I consider frets cheating, and I'm afraid my hands are too small for this huge thing. The callouses will be bloody at first.

Take the frets off! (lou reed's 'ostrich guitar'!)

Don't worry about having small hands, you should be fine with a strat to learn on. Like a lot of people I learned on a cheap-shit nylon stringer with a mile-wide fretbord. When I finally got me hands on an electic guitar it felt dead easy.

If someone's teaching you guitar, just take what knowledge you want from them and discard the rest. You'll be surprised what you'll stumble across just messing around with it, especially if you want to develop a more out-there style, which you seem to do from the music you mention.

 

[gek-opel]

Like a lot of people I learned on a cheap-shit nylon stringer with a mile-wide fretbord. When I finally got me hands on an electic guitar it felt dead easy.

This is exactly how I learnt, on a ridiculously chunky nylon string guitar (child's size!) I smashed it almost to pieces a few times and my father superglued it back together (tiny picture of a portuguese child playing a guitar on the inside too...)

 

[Benny Bunter]

This is exactly how I learnt, on a ridiculously chunky nylon string guitar (child's size!) I smashed it almost to pieces a few times and my father superglued it back together (tiny picture of a portuguese child playing a guitar on the inside too...)

Lol! You still got it?

Bought a child's size spanish guitar on holiday in Barcelona this year, and it feels lovely to play. After using a steel string acoustic for years the nylon strings feel nice and soft under the fingers. Love cheap gtrs that you can just bash around without caring...

 

[nomadologist]

This is interesting- are the other guitarists technically too good then, or merely fallen into repetitive habits? It is unfortunate that one you find something that works it is tempting rinse that technique until it gets very tired- the solution is exactly a you say to constantly shift outside of the comfort zone (whatever instrument it is)

You need to think clearly about what kind of guitar style you are aiming for. A modicum of technique is probably all you need before you can start (obv if you want to play in any vaguely idiomatic fashion then fingering and a rudimentary understanding of chord shapes and tunings will be useful). But given that you are primarily (I assume) interested in playing guitar from a creative point of view (rather than learning god-awful covers for a bar band) once the basics are learnt I would just advise writing as much as possible.

I got a book and learnt a few very primitive chord shapes and then set out on my own... let me know how you get on though!

Thanks for the advice--your post is comforting because all of your thoughts really affirm my own, so it makes me think I will be on the right track in no time.

You're correct to say I'm interested in playing from a creative point of view rather than a trad-rock tablature-reading way...will be running through all sorts of effects and going mostly for textures and adding sonic space and grain to music that's been sketched out on synths and other instruments already. I'm going to actively try NOT to learn the traditional blues chords style of "faking" guitar, though--my boyfriend says this is the biggest pitfall, and if I'm not careful to avoid it we'll miss the "creative spontaneity" boat. Do want to learn decent technique so I get good tones and can play around with timbre a little.

Eventually I will probably buy another guitar (a much cheaper one) to knock around with so I don't always have to use the vintage one and risk having to buy new parts for it and shit if I ruin it.

It's too bad you're living across the way, otherwise I would want you to play bass guitar! We're going to be synthing a lot of bass but we need someone to sequence the rhythm section out and sometimes play "real" bass.

Any NYers who can play bass up for making some totally far out music?

 

[nomadologist]

Take the frets off! (lou reed's 'ostrich guitar'!)

Don't worry about having small hands, you should be fine with a strat to learn on. Like a lot of people I learned on a cheap-shit nylon stringer with a mile-wide fretbord. When I finally got me hands on an electic guitar it felt dead easy.

If someone's teaching you guitar, just take what knowledge you want from them and discard the rest. You'll be surprised what you'll stumble across just messing around with it, especially if you want to develop a more out-there style, which you seem to do from the music you mention.

I think I may eventually buy a shitty mexican made guitar that I could try chipping the frets off. For some reason, I imagine that it'd be better to play by feel!

Luckily my bf is teaching me and he's really talented, but also knows the sound I'd be going for and hates all the same stuff I hate. He himself can play Jimmy Hendrix solos flawlessly and often does supernasty funky stuff to make me laugh.

 

[nomadologist]

One thing I'm adamant about is that at first (at least) we shouldn't "write" songs on the guitar. I always think it sounds very obvious as a classically trained pianist/strings player when a song has been written on a guitar by a guitar player. Though I like this sometimes in say some krautrock, this is the opposite of what I'm going for.

 

[gek-opel]

Well it depends on how you write songs--- if you tune the guitar into an unfamiliar tuning you can avoid this... also by deliberately avoiding conventional chord patterns (tho this ends up sounding like Xasthur half the time....)

If yr using a computer just record yourself improvising on the guitar, then cut it up into something more usable in a sequencer, then re-learn it in its newly re-edited form. This is also quite effective...

 

[petergunn]

One thing I'm adamant about is that at first (at least) we shouldn't "write" songs on the guitar. I always think it sounds very obvious as a classically trained pianist/strings player when a song has been written on a guitar by a guitar player.

yeah, they're in all in E (followed by A, D, and G) or they are built around guitar licks, although sucking on guitar will not avoid this (see: Cannonball by the Breeders...)

every instrument has its own built in songs, that is to say things that your fingers just fall under... like i am sure John Lennon wrote Imagine on a piano, yunno? i don't think the ones that occur on guitar are any worse than the ones on piano...

in terms of wanting a crazy freakout rockout band, i think it is better to have the bass player write the songs... that way the tonal center and rhythm can be established and everyone else can play off of that...

 

[gek-opel]

yeah, they're in all in E (followed by A, D, and G) or they are built around guitar licks, although sucking on guitar will not avoid this (see: Cannonball by the Breeders...)

every instrument has its own built in songs, that is to say things that your fingers just fall under... like i am sure John Lennon wrote Imagine on a piano, yunno? i don't think the ones that occur on guitar are any worse than the ones on piano...

in terms of wanting a crazy freakout rockout band, i think it is better to have the bass player write the songs... that way the tonal center and rhythm can be established and everyone else can play off of that...

You can definitely write songs on guitar and then end up with a finished product which is totally surprising and which doesn't sound obviously generically guitar-based... but it does take a little bit of effort... its a useful tool to develop chord patterns with, but then its often best to develop them via bass or other instruments.

 

[nomadologist]

Yeah, you can't completely avoid the guitar problems by having someone who sucks play...EDIT: Also, there certainly are things that "just happen" when you write on a piano (Elton John chord progressions anyone?) which is why I certainly do not want to play keyboards until we have songs written. There's nothing worse than when a classically trained pianist tries to condescend to write a pop song on piano. It always sounds so schmaltzy.

I wholly endorse the idea of having the rhythm section parts written first. This will probably happen on the drum machine and synth unless we can find someone who is good at bass. Mike could do it but he wants to play keyboards.

 

[nomadologist]

If yr using a computer just record yourself improvising on the guitar, then cut it up into something more usable in a sequencer, then re-learn it in its newly re-edited form. This is also quite effective...

This is a great idea.

My new roommate knows this producer who has a big studio in tribeca and has one of the new Moogs in it. We're probably going to try to buy some time on that ...

 

[polystyle]

Hey Nomado
Considering that only a few of the groups /units you listed use guitars much
(proggy Germans, Cabs 'cepted) , it doesn't sound like such a super large priority in your mix.
But yeah sure , electric guitars and synthetics can go so well together ...
You got the idea plug it into an amp you like the sound of , process it, and
cut it up and make something from the pieces you like .
Good luck wid it !

 

[dHarry]

This might sound a little extreme, but if you're classically trained, as soon as even the basic chord shapes are mastered you'll hardly be able to stop yourself thinking about keys, progressions, modulations etc. and this is what you want to avoid!

I'd recommend learning a basic bar chord shape - major and minor variations - only and then start messing about with fx pedals etc. This should help you to focus on texture and rhythm - a combination of fx and strumming technique.

You could even not learn any chords and just get your strumming/picking hand used to playing with delays, rhythmic patterns on dampened strings, long notes on infinite fuzz-sustain etc.

 

[Edward]

I would say, really, don't let anyone teach you anything.
You already know about music combined with having your own taste so you have an ear for what sounds good and what sounds bad. So just put your fingers on different frets and strum different strings until you find shapes that sound good. You will quickly find lots of chords you already know the names of, and the unfamiliarity of the instrument will help you find chords you wouldn't normally find on the piano, just by chance messing about.
So then you just remember some of the ones you like.

One thing I like doing is wrapping a sock around the 4 lowest strings so i can't play them at all, and just playing chic/james brown style chicken grease. the sock makes it really easy.

have funn.

 

[nomadologist]

thanks for the advice people

i think everyone who says i shouldn't bother learning any chords may be right because the temptation is there to organize them around the structure of a keyboard in my head, which not only doesn't help but i really don't want to play anything very intelligible...