K and the inter-'nuum transition point

nomos

nomos

Administrator
yeah i see what you're saying ben. and i'm playing devil's advocate a bit. more and more, though, it seems like an umbrella term for diverging tendencies that are quickly losing interest in each other. events like DOTS sound great. it'll be interesting to see if they become loci of new developments. but for most people around the world now dubstep = more or less the "lifeless, bland, irritating" sound that's become the mainstream.
 
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G

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
ether said:
i'm bored of 'raves' as they get less like 'dances' as the music becomes more functional and less emotional.

even if that makes me an ignorant anti-raver.
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Got to say that the picture of free raves as it's being painted on this thread is not one I recognise from reality, but still...

It is true that the music at free raves is not as satisfying as what you might hear at a club dedicated to that style of music - I'd say that's fair comment, and I love free raves. I wouldn't listen to acid tekno at home on my sofa.

But only because raves aren't a showcase for the music, they're about the whole experience. Music is just one component of it. It's wierd for people who are bang into music to see it being used functionally in this way, it took me a bit of getting used to, but it's instructional. It's made me a far better producer.

IMO the really creative period of dubstep came when it wasn't even a club phenomenon. In 2003-2005 it was pretty much confined to the radio, apart from FWD which was tiny - so producers had total freedom to move it away from the physical side and just concentrate on the moods and atmospheres, and expressing something psychological.

Some of those rinse sets from the mid 00s are astonishing. But once it goes back into the clubs that has to change. The same thing happened with artcore/D&B.

It's also interesting to see the reaction of people who feel kinship with the scene, when that scene starts moving on someplace else. I wenth through this with techno in the 90s. You just have to let it go. No one owns a scene or a sound or a name. Nomos is right, eventually you just have to plough your own path and enjoy those memories.
 
G

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
I find all the K-hating a bit wierd too. K is a way less dirty drug than coke. No South American country ever got rinsed because of K. Every bit of coke you will ever get in this country has arrrived here due to the exploitation of some unfortunate soul from the 3rd world. And it turns people into tossers.

And the garage scene from whence dubstep came is completely, intimately connected to cocaine. If that's a gross generalisation (and it is), it's no worse than some of the K-crustie-free rave stereotypes being served up elsewhere on this thread...
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:
I find all the K-hating a bit wierd too. K is a way less dirty drug than coke. No South American country ever got rinsed because of K. Every bit of coke you will ever get in this country has arrrived here due to the exploitation of some unfortunate soul from the 3rd world. And it turns people into tossers.

And the garage scene from whence dubstep came is completely, intimately connected to cocaine. If that's a gross generalisation (and it is), it's no worse than some of the K-crustie-free rave stereotypes being served up elsewhere on this thread...
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In terms of contamination--i.e. how "stepped on"--it is, you're right that coke is dirtier. And more terrorist acts on the part of the U.S. take place due to it. But I wouldn't feel all too sorry for the people involved in the manufacturing and distribution of cocaine at the highest level. They're being reimbursed beyond my wildest dreams for what they do. Coca is actually a vital cash crop even when processed only legally for medicinal purposes.

K may not be dirty, but having an out-of-body experience in a club isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. K is often stolen directly from veterinarians and also produced in the third world (namely Mexico) for cheaper/with less regulations on it than you can find it in the U.S. It's not immune from the sorts of concerns you have about coke.

K=dissociative episodes galore and psychosis

coke=neurotic insistence on control and eventually psychosis

Seems like a pretty even split to me, unless you consider how bad K smells when you bake up a lick. Then K clearly loses.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Mr. Tea said:
Thought to cause holes in the brain ("Olney's leisions") in lab critters after prolonged exposure, though to what extent this scales to humans is unclear.

Anecdotally, a lot of people who use it for a long time get quite fucked up...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly
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It's still better for you than e, which is a neurotoxin at any dose. :confused:

Lilly was quite a guy, one of my undergrad professors was at Berkeley in the 60s and talked a lot about the drug use of that whole circle...must have been exciting at the time...
 
V

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
Interesting...It is so strange, and the most 'druggy' drug I have ever experienced.

It seems to have only caught on in mainstream culture the last few years tho right? Tons of people I know have tried it.
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Mr. Tea said:
Thought to cause holes in the brain ("Olney's leisions") in lab critters after prolonged exposure, though to what extent this scales to humans is unclear.

Anecdotally, a lot of people who use it for a long time get quite fucked up...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly
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I've always thought Uncle John was a bit of a hero myself, him and Bateson. 'Nono George, the lightsabres need to make a really buzzy, trippy sound, like wummmmmm, y'know?'. Oh, and that's 10, 000 US dollars for that consultation.'
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
nomadologist said:
It's still better for you than e, which is a neurotoxin at any dose. :confused:

Lilly was quite a guy, one of my undergrad professors was at Berkeley in the 60s and talked a lot about the drug use of that whole circle...must have been exciting at the time...
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What evidence is there that E is neurotoxic? There was that high-profile study done with apes or monkeys where they all got Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or something but then it was retracted after the researchers admitted they'd used methamphetamine by mistake. DURR!!!

Edit: it's probably a bit harsh to say Lilly was mad or anything, it's just that trying to talk to dolphins is such a stereotypically 'acid-fried' thing to do. :cool:
In the 1980s he led a project which attempted to teach dolphins a computer-synthesised language. Dr. Lilly laid out the design for a future "communications laboratory" that would be a floating living room where humans and dolphins could chat as equals and where they would find a common language.
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Edit edit: he came up with the lightsaber sound? That's fantastic!
 
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Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
mistersloane said:
I've always thought Uncle John was a bit of a hero myself, him and Bateson. 'Nono George, the lightsabres need to make a really buzzy, trippy sound, like wummmmmm, y'know?'. Oh, and that's 10, 000 US dollars for that consultation.'
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He was absolutely right though! That suggestion came cheap!
 
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
Mr. Tea said:
Edit edit: he came up with the lightsaber sound? That's fantastic!
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No that was Ben Burtt - it's the sound of a TV set and a 35mm projector, he swung a binaural mic in front of the speakers to get the wummm sound. But wasn't Lilly like Lucas' spiritual advisor or something? I've always imagined them doing acid to the rushes of the films and making weird little sounds lol.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Mr. Tea said:
What evidence is there that E is neurotoxic? There was that high-profile study done with apes or monkeys where they all got Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or something but then it was retracted after the researchers admitted they'd used methamphetamine by mistake. DURR!!!

Edit: it's probably a bit harsh to say Lilly was mad or anything, it's just that trying to talk to dolphins is such a stereotypically 'acid-fried' thing to do. :cool:

Edit edit: he came up with the lightsaber sound? That's fantastic!
Click to expand...

http://ecstasy.org/info/novartisabs.html
 
straight

straight

wings cru
a lot of people underestamate the habit forming side to it ive a few mates, one a pretty prominent dj and another who is a middleweight techno producer who are both human wrecks every night of the week because of the stuff. I think ive hit a wall with it, nothing interesting happens on it anymore, just the usual cycle of little bit more, little bit more, WOOMPH i sit with my face about 2 inches from my laptop for an hour and it all goes a bit balde runner. i enjoy silly banter too much and it takes away any sharpness
 
U

UFO over easy

online mahjong
straight said:
a lot of people underestamate the habit forming side to it ive a few mates, one a pretty prominent dj and another who is a middleweight techno producer who are both human wrecks every night of the week because of the stuff.
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mm, quite a few mates from uni are in the same position.. they consider going a couple of days without a considerable achievement
 
H

heroesandvillains

Lono ̴
Not sure where to put this with the various threads on the state of Dubstep/Funky/Bassline etc etc etc..but this was at the top of the list so why not.

Anyways with all the talk about how sexless Dubstep is and the effort to bring girls back out on the dancefloor and Dubstep's obvious failings in doing such a thing;
I find it very interesting that two of the sexiest songs I've heard in recent memory, across all genres, just happen to be made by dubstep producers.

These songs being Mala's Alicia and D1's Mind and Soul. Both these songs are anomalies and quite divergent from the increasingly meatheaded wobbleshitstep that seems to have infested the scene. Yet as said elsewhere other people are following this smoother, sexier approach and its here(Hessle Audio, 2562, Martyn, D1s Sorrow and I'm Lovin' and even further out almost bordering on non-Dubstep territory Boxcutter's Foxy) where I really hope the future is headed.

I don't really know what my point is but I guess my question is, are these songs getting any play in the club scene? If they did would they be completely scoffed at and actually clear the 'dance' floor at a dubstep night?

I'm a complete outsider from the states (Boston) and when we have house party's it's the sexy stuff people love(alongside bassline which people have been reacting really well to over here) and the wobblers that clear the dancefloor.


And if these songs aren't being played at Dubstep nights, then how and where is this sound going to expand?
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
Errr... all the dubstep dos I've been to have had loads of girls.

Other than that, yeah Alicia is totally one of the tunes of the year and reinforces my point about the need for r'n'b flavoured dubstep. Similarly love the garagey / housey / technoy sounds of those producers the most of anything out there at the moment.
 
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