Reynolds on planet-mu

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
"There have always been greedy people. Capitalism turns greed into an ethical imperative."
That's very well observed. Of course I've been saying the same thing here for a while. ;)

And it hits upon the point that capitalism is not an 'intricate structure', or an ingeniously defised mechanism, or even a political philosophy. No, it is simply the trickle-down cultural and ontological effect of the spell of money combined with interest. Beyond that everything takes care of itself. It does operate like a virus but we ourselves incubate, propagate and mutate it.
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Gek, there are many places in Latin America that could be considered -- at least partially -- "outside" capital. The opportunities for rebellion are much stronger there, esp. since the U.S. military is bogged down in the middle east.

The foreshortened political sphere, the ennui, the seamless world of (consumer) possibility -- these are merely the forms of control at Capital's core of high-level reproduction -- the clerks of Empire are well fed, well disciplined, given plenty of empty visual stimuli, drugs and consumer goods so they keep the system humming along. But this is only a fraction of Empire, part that is shrinking and becoming less effective/important. Extreme brutality, violent resource extraction, widespread political repression, incarceration, racism, poverty along the periphery (both domestic and abroad)... these are equally part of Empire, and for me, a more compelling reason to fight against it than that it's become boring living in the core.

I think Gek's capitalist-realist mobius strip is an exaggeration -- the system is vulnerable, weak, weaker than it's ever been in my life perhaps. Many people are satisfied by the diminished possibilities that the current system offers, but it's increasingly unable to deliver on even its own meager promises. Radicalism, particularly in minority communities in the U.S., is on the rise. The problem is there is no organization on the left that can crystallize all this -- very palpable -- discontent and do something with it! That's part of closing the window on the possible, not just bad TV!
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
And it hits upon the point that capitalism is not an 'intricate structure', or an ingeniously defised mechanism, or even a political philosophy. No, it is simply the trickle-down cultural and ontological effect of the spell of money combined with interest. Beyond that everything takes care of itself. It does operate like a virus but we ourselves incubate, propagate and mutate it.

It's also worth pointing out that human beings are very virus-like... Really, is a population of 10 billion people sustainable? Five billion?
 

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
It's also worth pointing out that human beings are very virus-like... Really, is a population of 10 billion people sustainable? Five billion?
Our culture and behaviour has been perverted by becoming enmeshed in this system of endless production, consumption and exploitation. Of course we spew forth our evil spawn incessantly and without consideration, what else would you expect?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It's also worth pointing out that human beings are very virus-like... Really, is a population of 10 billion people sustainable? Five billion?

In terms of evolutionary drives, humans are no different from any other organism. With the possible exception that we're making a conscious effort to curb our own population.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
The problem is there is no organization on the left that can crystallize all this -- very palpable -- discontent and do something with it! That's part of closing the window on the possible, not just bad TV!

Well yes. Precisely. And why is that?

Also I think the degree to which south american states are outside of capitalism is up for debate, although merely the atempt to remove themselves is in itself laudable (and in all liklihood a reaction to the aggressive foisting of the harsh-end of Chicago school liberal economics on them).
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
And it hits upon the point that capitalism is not an 'intricate structure', or an ingeniously defised mechanism, or even a political philosophy. No, it is simply the trickle-down cultural and ontological effect of the spell of money combined with interest. Beyond that everything takes care of itself. It does operate like a virus but we ourselves incubate, propagate and mutate it.

Not just money combined with interest (though it is an ontological spell undoubtedly)... but in its current form PRODUCT-as-identity and above all ever more abstracted systems of CREDIT .

But as well as being an emergent property, specific actors a various times have had roles in determining its shape.
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Well yes. Precisely. And why is that?

Cuz hippies suck?

Don't count out the very real physical repression that marked the end of the 60s "counter" culture. Kent State, the imprisonment and assassination of Black Panther leadership, AIM members, and other radical groups... They cut off the head so Reagan could fuck the still-spasming body.
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Tho Gavin: equally the 60s counterculture was subverted into precisely the bedrock of the consumer society (probably not fair to include the Panthers and the like in there tho...)
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Tho Gavin: equally the 60s counterculture was subverted into precisely the bedrock of the consumer society (probably not fair to include the Panthers and the like in there tho...)

Yes, I am in agreement with you there... I just think violent political repression should be counted in the nihilism-end-of-history equation -- it's not ALL pleasure principle, though it seems like it looking back from this late capital vantage point where the violence has been swept under the rug and its hedonistic hippies that are all to blame.
 

X-101

Member
I also hate both terms with a passion, a journo asked if we are heading up some kind of revival last week, I didn't know if to swear or just hang up.

Hahah reynolds is REAL bad for this, he tryed it with so many gernes, i remember when he tried to call Drum n Bass 'neurofunk' or something shit like that, i think the only gerne name of his that stuck is post rock, but i just dont understand why this guy has to keep on trying to make micro genres

I remember before IDM came out they tryed to call the warp sound 'Intelligent Techno' there was an article in mixmag(i think) about it around 1992, ofc people the techno people made sure it didnt stick, IDM seemed to have stuck cos techno is/was such a dirty word (2unlimited) so the journo's changed it to IDM
 

swears

preppy-kei
Robert Hughes on the 60s "revolution" in an article on R. Crumb:

Why did Crumb survive the 60s, when so few others did? Because he didn't share the reigning fantasies of the time. He turned on, but he didn't tune in, much less drop out. He is, and by nature, was a pessimist and a sceptic: that is to say, arealist and an honest man, unlike the pretentious and fuddled messiahs who, from Jerry Rubin and Tim Leary to Eldridge Cleaver, were the accepted leaders of the pseudo-revolution. If you view the popular "underground" culture of the time, actually so far above-ground - the obsession with rock, mind-altering chemicals and love-ins, the doomed and crazed expectation that (given the right political circumstances) the hidden nature of humanity would reveal itself in all its radiant cooperation, mutual affection, generosity and sensuous freedom - you can't see it as anything but a renewed outburst of that utopianism which has always lurked right at the core of American culture. It was already there in the 17th-century fantasy that in the New World all renewals were possible, or ought to be. (This belief was the property neither of the left nor of the right; it went beyond all political alignments.)

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/crumb/story/0,,1431910,00.html
 

X-101

Member
so there is some kind of war between a mysterious THEM and THE TECHNO PEOPLE?

The hidden army of techno people in the shadows wearing UR t-shirts :p

i guess you're more of an "it's all music MAAAN" type

Theres a difference between gernes of musics and gernes for the sake of selling magazines/news papers
 

joe_muggs

Active member
I'm a big fan of Reynolds, going right back to being a teenage Butthole Surfers and AR Kane fan... but that WIRE piece got right on my wick. It just read like he'd never actually been to a dubstep rave. The idea that it's self-consciously moody or dark doesn't hold water when you've seen how it actually works in practice.
 

mms

sometimes
I'm a big fan of Reynolds, going right back to being a teenage Butthole Surfers and AR Kane fan... but that WIRE piece got right on my wick. It just read like he'd never actually been to a dubstep rave. The idea that it's self-consciously moody or dark doesn't hold water when you've seen how it actually works in practice.


it is self consciously moody and dark that's an undisputable fact, it's hardly light and breezy hands in the air stuff is it?
I've been to alot of dubstep events for ages, and alot of the music has got like that, people dance and have fun to it and react to it but the music is still dark.
 
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UFO over easy

online mahjong
Hahah reynolds is REAL bad for this, he tryed it with so many gernes, i remember when he tried to call Drum n Bass 'neurofunk' or something shit like that

yeah he came up with that to describe post no-u-turn techy stuff... I actually quite like the sound of it as a name! it's still used quite a lot as well, to describe the techy, hard-as-nails mechanically steppy stuff like Phace, Teebee, Upbeats and Noisia. New school Subtitles crew and their hangers on. Not my thing at all but seems to be popular on the internet. Places like DOA love that stuff to bits. Student synth geeks, chemistry students and file sharers :)
 

straight

wings cru
I'm a big fan of Reynolds, going right back to being a teenage Butthole Surfers and AR Kane fan... but that WIRE piece got right on my wick. It just read like he'd never actually been to a dubstep rave. The idea that it's self-consciously moody or dark doesn't hold water when you've seen how it actually works in practice.

exactly, its like that dodgy Kpunk bassline piece's hypothesis of dubstep as the death of serotonin. Some of my most euphoric moments of last year were at dubstep raves, and hearing 'Lose control' 3 times in an hour in 3 seperate arenas at sonar had me chasin the lazers like it was tiesto. Their understanding of how it transmits from the ipod/living room to socially seems to come from chase sequences in skins
 

straight

wings cru
yeah he came up with that to describe post no-u-turn techy stuff... I actually quite like the sound of it as a name! it's still used quite a lot as well, to describe the techy, hard-as-nails mechanically steppy stuff like Phace, Teebee, Upbeats and Noisia. New school Subtitles crew and their hangers on. Not my thing at all but seems to be popular on the internet. Places like DOA love that stuff to bits. Student synth geeks, chemistry students and file sharers :)

i thought this came from the name of a ropey american d+b label? might be wrong though.
 
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