from russia with hate
- Thread starter zhao
- Start date
heroesandvillains
Lono ̴
So Russia's bread their own terrorists...
"...His ideologies are apparent by how he decorates his office. One of the first things we noticed upon entering was a picture of his own head pasted over Stalin's body..."
Fuck, this should go under the craziest people thread...
"...His ideologies are apparent by how he decorates his office. One of the first things we noticed upon entering was a picture of his own head pasted over Stalin's body..."
Fuck, this should go under the craziest people thread...
Last edited:
Israel's nightmare: Homegrown neo-Nazis in the Holy Land
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...megrown-neonazis-in-the-holy-land-396392.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...megrown-neonazis-in-the-holy-land-396392.html
one thing people never manage or want to acknowledge is that intense racism exists in traditional jewish culture as well. i think it is important to recognize this.
i know every culture is racist to some degree, i know my people (chinese) have a tradition of being holier than thou bigoted, xenophobic, ethnocentric assholes.
but it's just that jews thinking they are better than everyone else (after all, god's chosen right?), refusing to let their children inter-marry with other ethnic groups, refusing to invest in the community at large (and keep capital flowing within their own micro-community), and various other very racist and very exclusionary practices are an important part of the equation, but never seems to get addressed in any meaningful way.
it certainly is a part of the dynamic in Israel now - in the article.
but instead it's always jews painted as victims. of course they have suffered a lot (more than some others), but IMO it doesn't not help to have a one-sided point of view when dealing with these very complex problems.
just some thoughts... thanks for indulging me.
i know every culture is racist to some degree, i know my people (chinese) have a tradition of being holier than thou bigoted, xenophobic, ethnocentric assholes.
but it's just that jews thinking they are better than everyone else (after all, god's chosen right?), refusing to let their children inter-marry with other ethnic groups, refusing to invest in the community at large (and keep capital flowing within their own micro-community), and various other very racist and very exclusionary practices are an important part of the equation, but never seems to get addressed in any meaningful way.
it certainly is a part of the dynamic in Israel now - in the article.
but instead it's always jews painted as victims. of course they have suffered a lot (more than some others), but IMO it doesn't not help to have a one-sided point of view when dealing with these very complex problems.
just some thoughts... thanks for indulging me.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well plenty of cultures seem, either explicitly or implicitly, to believe (or to have once believed) that they were special in some way, but the Jewish self-perception as the "chosen race" does seem to be a very extreme case of this.
Of course, many Jewish people these days identify themselves as Jews only in the cultural sense (rather than the strictly religious) and don't think any such thing, but at the same time the religious orthodoxy continues to exert a huge amount of political sway in Israel, so such beliefs certainly can't be dismissed as irrelevant to today.
Last edited:
vimothy
yurp
"Eli the Nazi"
Just goes to show you how stupid some people can be, but also the extent to which Eastern Europe and especially Russia have been captured by fascist and neo-Nazi movements. Of course, it's horrid to think that this sort of thing could happen in Israel, of all places, and at the hands of fellow Jews.
Perhaps it's really Israel's own fault for being too eager to accept anyone as "Jewish". They use the same criterea as the Nazis did. Understandable, but it has lead to an influx of Russian Jews without much of a stake in Israeli society. In many ways, it's quite a generic problem for societies trying to integrate immigrant populations (e.g. the British Muslims involved in the London terror attacks). Hyphenated identities and all that.
How is this any different to "Muslims kill people because the Koran tells them to"?
Probably not suprising from the poster responsible for the legend, "Die Zionist Dogs", but still... Sort it out. I find it particularly incredible that you choose to bring this up in the context of a discussion about the relatively new phenomenon of neo-nazism in Israel. It's almost as if you can't pass up the opportunity to have a dig, even when the opportunity is of this nature.
Just goes to show you how stupid some people can be, but also the extent to which Eastern Europe and especially Russia have been captured by fascist and neo-Nazi movements. Of course, it's horrid to think that this sort of thing could happen in Israel, of all places, and at the hands of fellow Jews.
Perhaps it's really Israel's own fault for being too eager to accept anyone as "Jewish". They use the same criterea as the Nazis did. Understandable, but it has lead to an influx of Russian Jews without much of a stake in Israeli society. In many ways, it's quite a generic problem for societies trying to integrate immigrant populations (e.g. the British Muslims involved in the London terror attacks). Hyphenated identities and all that.
How is this any different to "Muslims kill people because the Koran tells them to"?
Probably not suprising from the poster responsible for the legend, "Die Zionist Dogs", but still... Sort it out. I find it particularly incredible that you choose to bring this up in the context of a discussion about the relatively new phenomenon of neo-nazism in Israel. It's almost as if you can't pass up the opportunity to have a dig, even when the opportunity is of this nature.
swears
preppy-kei
This isn't really anything special. The whole basis of organised religion is belonging to a special, exclusive group, and the propagation of it. My catholic nan gets upset if I date prot girls!
vimothy
yurp
Mostly this story seems to have died back in October, but I did find a perseptive blog post on the subject at Sean's Russia Blog:
What is interesting about this case is not whether the youths indeed committed the crimes or if they sincerly embraced neo-Nazism as an ideology. What is at issue is whether the perpetrators are Jewish or not. The fact almost all of the youths are Russian immigrants with dubious Jewish connections allows many Israelis to rest easy. They can reason: Neo-Nazism is not some homegrown phenomenon but a disease injected into the body politic by the infiltration of some outside Other. But Buatinov’s existence threatens to rock the conceptual foundation of Jewishness itself. The idea of a neo-Nazi Jew is such an anathama that Israel has no law against it. If a Jew can also be a neo-Nazi, and worse become one in Israel, then what does that say about the conceptual coherency of Jewishness itself? The fact that Israeli society could breed its very negation seems to call into question the stability of its justification for existence. Put simply, the gang’s existence posits the question: in a post-Holocaust world, can a Jew be a Nazi?
The question, it seems, is too horrifying to ask, let alone answer. And this is why the gang’s non-Jewishness and antisemitism is being emphasized and not the fact that non-Jewish immigrants were also their victims. After all, Israeli racism against immigrants, especially Asians, Africans, and Russians, is common. The idea that Nazism could be embraced as an expression of that racism toward reveals the fact that two absolute contradictions–Jew and Nazi–are perhaps not so absolutely contradictory after all.
But these questions are likely to be ignored. If reader responses are any indication, targeting Israel’s Russian immigrant population as the breeding ground for wayward youth seems to be the comfortable route. Somehow, however, I doubt explaining racism with racism will do much to alleviate the problem. It will only shroud it further with nationalist fetishisms that will only inflame calls to exact the Russian cancer from Israeli’s otherwise healthy body politic.
The question, it seems, is too horrifying to ask, let alone answer. And this is why the gang’s non-Jewishness and antisemitism is being emphasized and not the fact that non-Jewish immigrants were also their victims. After all, Israeli racism against immigrants, especially Asians, Africans, and Russians, is common. The idea that Nazism could be embraced as an expression of that racism toward reveals the fact that two absolute contradictions–Jew and Nazi–are perhaps not so absolutely contradictory after all.
But these questions are likely to be ignored. If reader responses are any indication, targeting Israel’s Russian immigrant population as the breeding ground for wayward youth seems to be the comfortable route. Somehow, however, I doubt explaining racism with racism will do much to alleviate the problem. It will only shroud it further with nationalist fetishisms that will only inflame calls to exact the Russian cancer from Israeli’s otherwise healthy body politic.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That's not quite the same, though, as Chrisitanity is a proselytising religion; members of other religions (and atheists) are 'potential Christians' waiting to be enlightened. As far as I know it's impossible to become Jewish other than by marrying into the faith, and it isn't exactly encouraged, in fact orthodox Jews are generally dead against it, aren't they?
Edit: there was a film that came out a few years ago about a self-hating Jewish teenager who joins a neo-Nazi skinhead gang, I never got round to seeing it but it was meant to be quite good. I think it was called The Believer or something like that - anyone here see it?
Last edited:
vimothy
yurp
Nope, you can convert to Judaism just like any other religion.
AFAIK, marrying a Jew wouldn't make you Jewish. You'd have Jewish kids though, according to some interpretations.
swears
preppy-kei
That's not quite the same, though, as Chrisitanity is a proselytising religion; members of other religions (and atheists) are 'potential Christians' waiting to be enlightened.
But this is just as problematic in some cases. "Convert or die!" At least jews aren't gonna hassle you to join their club, unlike some of the annoying-ass christians I've encountered.
But this is just as problematic in some cases. "Convert or die!" At least jews aren't gonna hassle you to join their club, unlike some of the annoying-ass christians I've encountered.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah, but they don't exactly go out of their way to convert you, do they? I mean, how many Jews are there in the world - maybe 12 million or something? It's a pretty exclusive club.
Oh, for sure! I'm all for people like that leaving me the hell alone (unless I'm in a particularly argumentative mood that day) - my point was simply that religions like Christianity and Islam are more 'inclusive', if that's the right word, than Judaism, because they actively evangelise and try to convert people. I'm certainly not saying it's a good thing.
Last edited:
Incredibly heavy-handed symbolic ending aside, I remember it not being that bad. Most of the events that took place were fairly predictable (i.e. as soon as plot elements were introduced you kinda knew what was going to happen) but on the whole I believe it was all right (acting and character wise, that is).
Well, that's a fairly wishy-washy endorsement for you. In my defense I did see it around 6 years ago.
Jaie Miller
Well-known member
Me and my mum were speaking about foreigners the other day and we came to the conclusion that, not only are a lot of foreigners ugly, but their language is ugly and agressive and they dont bring any art or culture to this nation. They just stand there and expect royalties, they see that I'm black and immediatly assume that I'm under them. This is not a subtle reaction that I've psychically deduced. The thing with a lot of these eastern european types is that where they come from, muscle wins. They have their say by poking their chest out and arm wrestling. It's also how they get their females. They have no tact, they are argumentative and dirty. The rich ones fund the gangs and sell their women. In my internet cafe, we have membership deals, people can come in and type their password, sit down and use the computer undisturbed. They've already paid, £5 for 25 hours. *confetti* Sometimes the computers don't always work. They just don't. I know this. Messenger wont open, or they wont be able to see the person on the other side of the webcam. They'll be nothing I can do to change this. It's not my fault. So this forigner comes in and low and behold, he can't see his precious female on the other side of the webcam. So he moves computers, still nothing, moves again, still nothing. Then the chick that he comes in with says something in her language like, "K-fluk, k-fluck, k-fluck, k-fluck" with an attitude. And he replies like "lomo, lomo, lomo, lomo, rogo." and I was like, What the fuck?! What did you say, mate?!! What?! Pissed. And a lot of these black kids that come out from school, (it's not just the black ones) should respect this country and the people. The old folk etc. I'm not saying they should be perfect. I'm saying they should have respect. They are like wild animals. It's disgusting. And embarassing. 
This country has a lot of older females who are delightful, charming, cultural, knowledgeable and witty. But they are also maters at being bitches. And thats what it turns them into. The men in turn react like cunts and things get more and more exclusive. Sometimes I'll even mistake a foreigner for an english bloke! I'll be at the cash machine taking a while, so you know. I'll let the guy behind me go. "I dont know what is wrong with me today" " I've not had my crunchy nut" hardy hardy har and all the rest. but sometimes I'll think its an english guy and its like a romainian or something. "Hey, I want my place back!" you are not who I thought you were.
I'm not saying it's right to beat anyone up or anything. I'm just saying.
This country has a lot of older females who are delightful, charming, cultural, knowledgeable and witty. But they are also maters at being bitches. And thats what it turns them into. The men in turn react like cunts and things get more and more exclusive. Sometimes I'll even mistake a foreigner for an english bloke! I'll be at the cash machine taking a while, so you know. I'll let the guy behind me go. "I dont know what is wrong with me today" " I've not had my crunchy nut" hardy hardy har and all the rest. but sometimes I'll think its an english guy and its like a romainian or something. "Hey, I want my place back!" you are not who I thought you were. I'm not saying it's right to beat anyone up or anything. I'm just saying.