Hizballah invades Lebanon

vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Why is no one talking about this?

It seems the "resistance" have become the occupiers...

2480661532_42eeb0d13d_m.jpg
*

Analysis:

Abu Muqawama

The Daily Star

The Guardian

Angry Arab

Now Lebanon

*(Poster of a certain special someone, left in the ruins of Future TV's offices)
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
This is pretty shocking and very, very fucked. There was talk a few months back that Hizbollah was feeling very confident right now and might have another tilt at Israel. Seems they've gone the other way instead. Iran must be feeling pretty sure of itself for something like this to be happening.
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
Why is no one talking about this?
Click to expand...

Yeah, weirdly little coverage of it over the weekend. When I saw that guardian story yesterday I assumed they'd just got it a little late, not that it was still ongoing.
 
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droid

Guest
How exactly does this qualify as an 'invasion'? Thats like claiming that the IRA 'invaded' Belfast during their operations in the 70s...

This is internecine conflict between rival political and military factions. Brutal and stupid - yes. but no invasion. And its been in the papers and on the radio every day since Friday at least.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Some black humour at the total ineptitude of the US sponsored Sunni militia as well. At least Jumblatt's boys fought back, FFS.

More black humour:

"I think what we have seen is the first soft Army takeover of power," says Rami Khouri, director of the Issam Fares Institute for Public Policy and International Relations at the American University of Beirut. "The Army has assumed significant power as it is funded and trained by the United States and receives political guidance by the Iranians [via Hezbollah]. It is the first Iranian-American joint venture."​
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
droid said:
How exactly does this qualify as an 'invasion'? Thats like claiming that the IRA 'invaded' Belfast during their operations in the 70s...
Click to expand...

It all rather depends on where you live, doesn't it? I expect it feels like an invasion if you live in the Chouf, er, because that's exactly what it is. In any case, my family (Catholic Republicans from Andy Town, Belfast) would probably call the IRA's operations an invasion. Some of them (the non members of Sinn Fein) at least.

But I was actually trying to be ironic... it doesn't matter. Call it what you want.

This is internecine conflict between rival political and military factions. Brutal and stupid - yes. but no invasion. And its been in the papers and on the radio every day since Friday at least.
Click to expand...

I meant why is no one talking about it here.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
It's interesting though. What's Nasrallah going to do once he (inevitably) takes full control of Lebanon? I hear that HA are basically taking areas, securing them, handing them over to the army, and then disappearing. I guess they're making a point.
 
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droid

Guest
vimothy said:
I meant why is no one talking about it here.
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I guess for the same reason that no-ones talking about the continuing escalation of conflict in the Gaza strip and the occupied territories and the rejection of ceasefire offers by the Israelis.

In fact, when i think about it, theres a LOT of stuff that isn't being talked about here...
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
droid said:
I guess for the same reason that no-ones talking about the continuing escalation of conflict in the Gaza strip and the occupied territories and the rejection of ceasefire offers by the Israelis.
Click to expand...

Is that really for the same reason? Has the "continuing escalation" just started out of nowhere? Does it have the same strategic implications?

And it was a rhetorical question, another way of saying: talk about this!

In fact, when i think about it, theres a LOT of stuff that isn't being talked about here...
Click to expand...

True enough.
 
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droid

Guest
vimothy said:
Is that really for the same reason? Has the "continuing escalation" just started out of nowhere? Does it have the same strategic implications?

And it was a rhetorical question, another way of saying: talk about this!
Click to expand...

Yes - I am aware of that. But I think the way you have framed your post, with the use of the 'ironic' term invasion, gives the impression (unintentionally?) of a comparison with the far more serious events of 2006.

Also, once you start asking the question 'why isnt anyone talking about this' on a forum, you're, intentionally or not, implying something about the people who post on said forum - that they dont consider something **worth** talking about.

My fatuous response re Israel was meant to illustrate this point, not to draw connections between the each situation.

But by all means, chat away! :D
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
droid said:
Yes - I am aware of that. But I think the way you have framed your post, with the use of the 'ironic' term invasion, gives the impression (unintentionally?) of a comparison with the far more serious events of 2006.
Click to expand...

The comparison isn't that far-fetched, not if this is the start of a civil war.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Re "invasion" -- I was thinking of the quote, "after we invaded Iraq, it invaded itself".

It's not obvious to me how "Lebanese" the SSNP are.

And I think we can be pretty confident that the M14 Sunni and Druze militia engaging the Hizb, Amal and SSNP fighters on the ground probably do not view this as anything other than an invasion of their territory, because, again, that's what it is.

Whether this will continue to escalate, or whether Nasrallah is happy to have his communications network left well alone and his man to be reinstated at the airport, remains to be seen. It is obvious who the most powerful person in Lebanon is, though, and he ain't working for Washington.

The geo-strategic gains, the communications network, the logistical supply lines: is this the prelude to more fighting with Israel in the summer?
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Sean -- blogging from Hamra -- calls coup:

This seems to be shaping up to be a full-scale coup d'état by Hezbollah with the support of the army. It looks like they're going piece by piece. Future was first, now the PSP is being taken in the Chouf, and I imagine the Lebanese Forces in the Christian sectors will be next.

The rest of the Lebanese parties were no match for Hezbollah, but when you throw in the army, what can you expect? Hariri and Joumblatt seem to have agreed not to fight, probably to save the bloodshed that would not have stopped the coup in any case. So they've agreed to go quietly in exchange for there not being a battle to which Future and PSP partisans would have gone like lambs to the slaughter.

The army seems to have cut a deal with Hezbollah, but it's hard to say what they could have done in any case, since they're so much weaker than the Party of God. So the current government will most likely be forced to resign, Suleiman will be appointed as president, and someone pliable will be appointed to be Prime Minister. Things will be like before 2005, except that instead of taking marching orders from Damascus, the new government will answer to Harat Hreik.​
 
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polystyle

Well-known member
I was wondering same thing over the weekend, glad you brought it up V ...
Think your post from 'Sean from Hamra' has it down pretty well ,
' Coup from the inside' .
And it DID happen quietly.
The Gov's hitting the Hiz' communications now looks like the cue they wanted to go full force.
Had been reading notices in the news about a build up by but this is smooth.

Once US 'broke' Iraq, all the players came out to romp.
Iran feels it's their window in time ...

As pointed out, lots of things don't end up getting mentioned, let alone discussed on the forums.
Major earthquake in China ... Myanmar cyclone to mention just a couple.
As discussed over in Music forum -there is so much happening in 'world news' and 'music' that it really takes an effort to keep up.
Great majority of people I know don't have or make time
- or if they used to gave up as the pace has accelerated.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Halba Massacre

A militia allied to Saad Hariri's Future Movement allegedly executed SSNP fighters in Halba on Friday. The SSNP fighters were defending their head quarters from an FM demonstration that escalated into a violent clash. The SSNP surrendered and thirteen were then tortured and murdered, and their bodies were desecrated. The Lebanese Army was present and appears to have stood by passively. One FM militia member recorded the atrocity on his mobile phone. It has been uploaded onto YouTube and has been posted on SSNP affiliated websites.

Well, what everybody speculated happened. The demonstration was suppose to take place at 10 AM, people from my area told me that they were going to torch down the HQ. Soon, news arrived that the demonstration was postponed till 11, and at around 10:30, clashes began.

To put things into perspective, i’m pro-opposition in the middle of a pro-government area. Even though most of them are friends and family, paranoia hit me when i learned that people very close to me where taking part in the clashes and even leading the attack. That meant one thing, we were next. Automatically that SSNP HQ, became our last line of defense. I know this might seem strange, but that’s exactly how we felt. All roads coming from the south(Tripolis) was cut by the army and pro-SSNP members sat-up a blockade and captured over 50 fully armed FMrs , coming from Brkayel and Bibnin, sent by none-other then the Mufty(highest Muslim cleric in akkar) himself. The FMers were stripped from their guns and sent back. Somebody told us that reinforcement were coming from koura(SSNP stronghold), but it was stopped by the army.

Negotiations began to put an end to the fighting, and the attackers demanded that the SSNP evacuates the HQ and hands it over to them. SSNP fighters rejected the offer, and the fighting continued as both sides used machine guns, B-7s, stingers(WHERE THE **** DID THEY GET THAT????) and mortars (the home of a journalist i knew was hit with two successive mortar shells with his kids inside the house, we caught with him later). At 4:30 PM, SSNP fighters ran out of ammo as FMers moved in and threw a burning Truck tire into the HQ. At this point, a shaikh intervened and asked the SSNP fighter to hand over the office to the army, the fighters agreed after the shaikh guaranteed their security. Army soldiers took over the office and we all thought that this was it. It wasn’t. FMers stormed the office and as the army watched, lined up the SSNP fighters on a wall and executed them at point blank range. They executed the fighters after they surrendered. That wasn’t all, FMrs brought axes and started hammering down at bodies, cutting every limb. All of this happened while the army was watching.​

Discussion at The Orange Room, an FPM affiliated forum.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Thanks for that article, polystyle.

Hezbollah Emerges in Forefront of Power in Lebanon - Anthony Shadid, WaPo

At 9:30 p.m., residents said, Hezbollah's fighters were ambushed by Druze villagers in their heartland, some of whom, until that moment, had stood on opposite sides of the 18-month-long crisis, divided by politics and leadership. For perhaps the first time in Hezbollah's history, it had deployed as an army of conquest rather than an insurgent band, fighting Israel, that could exploit its own terrain and the support of its people.

Two hours later, residents said, its fighters were trapped on the Israeli-built road. Furious mediation secured their release, and, by 4 a.m., they began withdrawing.

"We're going to die in our village. We're never going to leave it," said Nadia Assaf, a 22-year-old resident of Niha, surveying the scene of the battle from a Druze shrine for the prophet Job. "It learned the lesson that it'll be defeated on our land."

The words were the same as those uttered by countless Shiite villagers in the 2006 war with Israel, when it invaded Hezbollah's stronghold in southern Lebanon.

Few missed that irony: "Hezbollah may gain a lot in terms of power. It certainly has the upper hand," said Salem, the analyst. "But it has lost a lot in terms of image."​
 
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