bill drummond and the 'future' of music

[matt b]

drummond has a new book out:
Amazon product ASIN 1905636261
coming to the end of the book, i see the links to the stuff that is talked about most on here (and also regarding my own listening practices).

has it got to the point where the physical environment of the dance, whether wonky, dubstep, grime, funky, reggae and all that goes with it (vibes, hype etc) is far more important than the physical reproduction of the music played for future listening?

a lot of the music i buy/listen to sounds shit at home compared to the hearing of it in it's proper context...

is it time to say enough?

love the MOMENT, stop trying to recreate or approximate the MOMENT.

move on...

obviously, its a contradictory and (possibly) contrarian position to take, but wouldn't it stop so much pointless noise on the internet and in face to face conversation?

isn't it time we moved on and stopped concerning ourselves with the object (whether physical or virtual), and let ourselves revel in the holistic, communitarian experience?

i don't know, but that could be because my house is full of plastic and cardboard which i am deeply attached to.

but why?

help...

 

[reeltoreel]

We can't stop talking about stuff, you know. We'll always want to try and collect our memories in one form or another - and having done so, we'll want to share them with other people.

There's an essential tension involved here. The conversation and the experience seem to be constantly engaged in a battle for ideological supremacy, but it's been going on for so long, at so many levels and in so many locations that without the struggle for interpretation, the experience loses some of its meaning, some of its glitter. Without the laquered, crazed layers of the thoughts and experiences of others, collected in the form of paper and plastic, cardboard and silica, wouldn't we struggle to invest our experiences with meaning, to put them in a framework which makes sense to us as humans, rather than mere individuals...

Or something. I know what you mean, I think, and it's something I think we should aspire to, but it seems like an impossible task.

 

[fokse vektaire xeven]

Can solitary personal experiences not invoke THE MOMENT? If you're deeply attatched to your records it may be a distinct possibility

 

[swears]

45 is ace, so I will check this out...

 

[Shonx]

Was sitting around a mate's last night smoking a few reefers and drinking a few beers listening to some very old DJ Hype jungle (was about dubstep speed so figure must have been pre-94) and thought that a lot of this music although meant to be heard in clubs, was probably caned on pirate radio back in the day, so to a lot of people, hearing these tunes in their bedroom/lounge/car wasthe environment.

Plus a lot of people were either too young or geographically distant to actually hear these tunes out. Case in point - bought my first Horsepower tunes in 2001, and unless I played them out, I never heard someone else play them in a club until 2007, and most memories of them to me are coming down sessions on Sunday mornings surrounded with amusing friends, rather than having some drunk nobhead fall into me or have the 34th person ask if I've got any pills. I think clubs are rather over-rated as community experiences unless drunken/pilled up eedjits thinking they're being charming/deep/amusing float your boat.

You get a better class of fuckhead at free parties anyway

 

[optimum]

Was sitting around a mate's last night smoking a few reefers and drinking a few beers listening to some very old DJ Hype jungle (was about dubstep speed so figure must have been pre-94) and thought that a lot of this music although meant to be heard in clubs, was probably caned on pirate radio back in the day, so to a lot of people, hearing these tunes in their bedroom/lounge/car wasthe environment.

Plus a lot of people were either too young or geographically distant to actually hear these tunes out.

Yes, Burial for example. U left dubstepforum Shonx?

 

[matt b]

We can't stop talking about stuff, you know. We'll always want to try and collect our memories in one form or another - and having done so, we'll want to share them with other people.

i'm not suggesting we stop talking about music, merely positing the idea that maybe the focus of discussions could change and be of benefit. for example, dubstepforum has been unreadable for at least the past 18 months because people are constantly starting threads about when record X is coming out. why? it'd be better to talk about the experience of hearing it, rather than owning it surely?

Or something. I know what you mean, I think, and it's something I think we should aspire to, but it seems like an impossible task.

i'm not sure i'd even use as strong a word as 'aspire'- i'm not chucking my music and have been record shopping this week

 

[matt b]

Was sitting around a mate's last night smoking a few reefers and drinking a few beers listening to some very old DJ Hype jungle (was about dubstep speed so figure must have been pre-94) and thought that a lot of this music although meant to be heard in clubs, was probably caned on pirate radio back in the day, so to a lot of people, hearing these tunes in their bedroom/lounge/car wasthe environment.

exactly- that was the MOMENT. burial doesn't need to own all the records played on '90s pirates. in fact, its because he focuses on the feelings created by memories the the MOMENT that makes his music evocative.




(i wish i hadn't capitalised the m word initially, as i have to stick with it now and it feels pretentious)

 

[matt b]

Can solitary personal experiences not invoke THE MOMENT? If you're deeply attatched to your records it may be a distinct possibility

well, obviously there are flaws in this train of thought

 

[fokse vektaire xeven]

well, obviously there are flaws in this train of thought

Wikipedia or it didn't happen

would you recommend the book?

 

[mms]

exactly- that was the MOMENT. burial doesn't need to own all the records played on '90s pirates. in fact, its because he focuses on the feelings created by memories the the MOMENT that makes his music evocative.




(i wish i hadn't capitalised the m word initially, as i have to stick with it now and it feels pretentious)

bet he's got or wishes he has tapes of them though.
also he's putting out a dj kicks some time in the future.
thinking it through, i don't aspire to not having physical music and i love the moment too, it's possible to separate the two things as they are separate entities in their own right.
i like records and naturally tend to want to buy records, i've never been that bothered about mp3's, the number of times i've lost mp3s thru crashes etc, mp3's are even more transient and fleeting, more forgettable, so if mp3s are the only thing avaliable, i suppose the moment will be more important.


it is amazing esp in this country how people are unable to invest in music be it clubs, gigs etc. not only do they talk through gigs, but alot of the time they'd rather be spending a fortune on booze in a pub, even if the music is high quality and free, but involves a modicum of travelling.
god sometimes i fantasise about the pubs in the uk closing for a week, now that would be chaos.

 

[matt b]

would you recommend the book?

yeah- it's in a similar vein to 45, pared back writing about drummond's activities in a semi-diary form (doing the17 choir, travelling), mixed in with stories about his past and his obsessions (music, the beatles, nature, liverpool, pete waterman etc*)

i got mine from zavvi for £8 (should be £12.99). he's doing a reading/signing tour soon


interview here:
http://www.thequietus.com/articles/bill-drummond-interviewed-recorded-music-has-run-it-s-course


*one of these isn't an obsession, rather the focus of a good story

 

[matt b]

thinking it through, i don't aspire to not having physical music and i love the moment too, it's possible to separate the two things as they are separate entities in their own right.

oh, me too, but don't you sometimes feel that the focus is unbalanced in favour of ownership?

in comparison to, say, cinema, why are we all so caught up on buying a product? you can enjoy seeing a film in a cinema without wanting to buy the dvd- why is music different?

it is amazing esp in this country how people are unable to invest in music be it clubs, gigs etc. not only do they talk through gigs, but alot of the time they'd rather be spending a fortune on booze in a pub, even if the music is high quality and free, but involves a modicum of travelling.
god sometimes i fantasise about the pubs in the uk closing for a week, now that would be chaos.

yeah, we went to the free prom in shoreditch on the saturday before carnival and it was impossible to find a spot where there weren't pissed up self-obsessed 20 year olds jabbering away mindlessly, proud that they were disturbing others. very strange.

 

[Dusty]

dubstepforum has been unreadable for at least the past 18 months because people are constantly starting threads about when record X is coming out.

That and the endless vacuous big ups. Seriously, the attitude of the forum is so relentlessly positive and back-slappingly chummy I begin to feel sick.

My working life involves sitting alone in a room in front of a computer - forget living for the MOMENT - I am quite happy to fill my mind with echos of the MOMENT whilst I work thank you very much.

 

[swears]

He's doing a signing session on the 24th in Liverpool. Might go and see him on my lunchbreak. No reading though! All the other locations get readings except for us, I thought he was a big fan of the city...

 

[Shonx]

That and the endless vacuous big ups. Seriously, the attitude of the forum is so relentlessly positive and back-slappingly chummy I begin to feel sick.

My working life involves sitting alone in a room in front of a computer - forget living for the MOMENT - I am quite happy to fill my mind with echos of the MOMENT whilst I work thank you very much.

Yeah, I fucking hate mindless positivity - what moves forwards without somebody pointing out why it needs to or what's wrong? Vacuous, blinkered bullshit just makes for complacency.

Oh and yes Optimum, I did leave in like May or so. Wasn't interested in dubstep any more, only a couple of people made me laugh heartily and the community vibes turned out to be utterly self-promoting, superficial bullshit. The friends I've made I'll stick with, the rest can go and fuck themselves with a power-drill.

 

[Slothrop]

That and the endless vacuous big ups. Seriously, the attitude of the forum is so relentlessly positive and back-slappingly chummy I begin to feel sick.

The best bit is when someone posts a polite but negative opinion and someone else comes back with five lines of caps locked abuse about how this sort of negativity is spoiling the good vibes.

That and the endless paranoia about subgenres, as if the Rusko clones are making diverse and inventive music at the moment but will stop doing so if anyone refers to them collectively as 'jump up' or something.

But tbh there's not that much I actually want to talk about re dubstep as a listener except the occasional thing about what's floating my boat at the moment and why.

 

[slackk]

All the other locations get readings except for us, I thought he was a big fan of the city...

He's doing a seminar here later in the year, November I think. I say here when I don't live in Liverpool anymore mind...

 

[m33k +i93r]

Interesting topic.

I dunno, there seems to be a role for buying music as a way of tracing trends and trajectories within sounds and scenes, and future buying as a way of predicting trajectories or being surprised by them.

Of course there is still the enjoyment to be had in actually listening to and feeling your way around a record. If this simply isn't there and you're not playing out, why buy?? Actually I buy stuff because I trust who is putting it out to give me something I will enjoy, but the surprise angle is one I can use either way in this situation - I can be surprised that someone has put out a record which I find ill conceived in the same way I can be blown away by something.

How does this fit in with the talk about the 'Generation Bass' show? Was that not an event which precluded that there are avenues within dubstep in particular that are being explored to an interesting extent, just that they are not in the big rooms and the MOMENT is not as important as the progression or the proliferation of innovative styles? Blackdown for me has always shone a light into the future and in the dimly lit tunnels of dubstep, and I've never thought his perspective as one which prioritises the moment.

Yes, the geographical impossibility of being in a crucible is a big factor in this, and for that reason more investigative journalism and creative djing (both on radio and in clubs) is necessary for anything to be considered forward thinking. What I'm labouring to ask here is why is it necessary for there to be a zeitgeist and why is it necessary to talk about things based only on what's hot?

 

[mms]

Yeah, I fucking hate mindless positivity - what moves forwards without somebody pointing out why it needs to or what's wrong? Vacuous, blinkered bullshit just makes for complacency.

Oh and yes Optimum, I did leave in like May or so. Wasn't interested in dubstep any more, only a couple of people made me laugh heartily and the community vibes turned out to be utterly self-promoting, superficial bullshit. The friends I've made I'll stick with, the rest can go and fuck themselves with a power-drill.

yep censoring people's reasons for not liking something, or suggesting there is something wrong with an outlook is utterly stupid.