Mgmt

[nomadthethird]

Here?:








Sorry if I'm misreading your posts here, but your primary criticism of the music mentioned was "it's about scenes". It comes across as very dismissive. Any attempts to steer it back to discussion of the music resulted in more peculiar attacks on scenes.

Styles of music and "genres" of music and scenes are all very different things.

 

[nomadthethird]

So right, we can conclude that at no point have i ever said:

nomadologist:' started this entire subpoint by accusing everyone who liked BDDC of only liking it because they were some sort of "jaded cokehead."'

i helped bring the original record to light when i worked at the place that rereleased it, spending hours tracking it down and running the pr and production for it, so why would i say that, it's one of my favorite disco records.

i've simply said i don't like the new recent modern black devil records which isn't a criticism of anyone who does, and that i think certain italo nights are full of jaded cokey people, its really got nothing whatsoever to do with the new black devil disco club records, which i've said i dont like, but as you can see from the collection of things you've copied and untruthfully paraphrased, this has fuck all to do with that record at all, why would it?




heres what i actually said, not the edited bits you've put over to try and make me look bad, and anyway so what if i don't like the new black devil records, who gives a fuck, i wasn't talking about that at all.:


me:''there are a whole bunch of good italo records and some of the clone type things that progress and mix it up with italo are great, but italos so rinsed out, that in london anyway, people will just play any 80s eurotrash crap with an arpeggio and some badly sung broken english, for the sake of looking cool to their mates, its quite backward anyway, quite collectory that scene, does my head in when there is so much good new music. Disco's such a massive and varied global genre, its got so much more to give than that rubbish.''

thats not about black devil is it?

me: ''that's not what i mean, as i've said above i love disco etc, but there is so much good music about and that whole scene is about a certain type of distanced jadedness and alot of gear, over here anyway and a really narrow view of what makes good disco too quite often. It's hilarious how you tend to not remember any posts less than 2 posts back.''

describing the london italo scene, not the black devil record.


me:''i don't think the new black devil stuff is very good at all, is it ok to do that ?
It's a pale imitation of the original. I'm not saying its like crappy italo stuff.''

i don't like the new black devil records - so what, i've even said there its not the bad italo that i don't like as well.

me: ''no, good music though there is a hell of alot of good dubstep out there at the mo if you forget about the crap,
there is enough of loads of different genres to play like disco djs played, different styles, diff speed, everything from funky, to wonky instrumental hip hop stuff, good dubstep and grime, bassline, dancehall, techno and world electronic music stuff, fidgit house stuff, new disco, tropical stuff etc.. loads of stuff thats great for dancing rather than music for jaded idiots on coke to pose to.''

describing the trash that gets played on the london italo scene... i also said the original black devils not an italo record ffs, which you've already covered in that weird selection of quotes that you have used to illustrate your 'point'

so whats the big deal?

you lost the plot ages ago when you started ranting about 'scenes' so no need to start paraphrasing and carefully editing what i've said to try and win this one really.... you should drop it, the only thing i've criticised, ( too harshly in retrospect) cos people can do what they like, is the london italo scene and the people there as it seems like a massive dead end to me, when there is so much good other shit about.
All this has been pretty easy to understand.
Obviously somehow thats given you a good chance to steer the conversation toward taking it personally, almost immediatley ..
it's also bloody boring, but i don't want to be misrepresented so you can attempt to win a lousy argument cos your ego can't deal with being wrong on this one.

Oh for fuck's sake--if you can't imagine how people are going to react to someone equating BDDC with "italo scenes" that are rinsed, when they are repeatedly heaped into the same point in the same posts by the same person, then I guess it's not even worth discussing with you.

If you'll recall, I was not the one who began the "scene" "ranting"--YOU did, when you started on the italo scene.

My following comments on scenes were by way of AGREEING with you, in case that point isn't clear enough.

As for the rest--

How can someone be "wrong" about their opinion regarding an album?

What does "wrong" have to do with this?

So you're "right" about BDDC? Or are you "right" about the italo scene?

What exactly is it that you're "right" about here?

That you worded some posts in a way that implied that the new BDDC remixes are bad because certain scenesters like them or music like it in a collectory way that is inauthentic?

Most people would classify BDDC as "italo", which we've already covered in depth, and no, I did not supply any 'quotes' to back any of this up, ascoltare did.

 

[nomadthethird]

Also, disagreeing with someone is not the same as taking something "personally", which is ridiculous--

There are people with differing opinions and experiences on the internet?

GASP. No fucking way man.

You can flatter yourself that I actually give a rat's ass what your opinion is, but that won't make it true.

 

[nomadthethird]

I did not intentionally misrepresent anything you said, MMS, but you might want to use more periods and commas in your sentences--this may make them a little less ambiguous.

For example, I can't make sense of these first few sentences in the following paragraph-- I can read this about three different ways, depending upon where the punctuation is put:

in a more meticulous, saturated and hyperenthusiast way, ie i'm not so random my mind boggles with the miriad of opportunities, the creativeness the plain enthusiasim and talent of the music i focus around (or not as it seems the www is a thrower upper of random 'fuckin ell' from god knows where moments than the nonsense you've come up to dismiss these arguments without having even read them - this is the overall problem with this thread, you're basically misreading everything cos you seem to have to win an argument at any cost? no?

I've read every last word in this thread. Though I definitely shouldn't have wasted my time as the entire discussion has taken place at a rather inarticulate, juvenile level where geographically particular scenes have been superimposed over the world, people have assumed that everyone shares their experiences, and several people have been using the same words entirely ambiguously to mean different things without bothering to define them.

 

[nomadthethird]

For the record, I'd like to address something in this thread, although it could easily go anywhere, because it has come up several times here.

It truly baffles me--maybe we can file it under "guy things" along with electronic music scenes?

Why on earth do people here insist on believing that someone who vehemently disagrees with them is only doing so in some weird attempt to be "right" about something?

Projection, maybe?

I participate in discussions, any discussions, but especially internet discussions, as a means of expressing my opinion. I do not expect people to agree with me; in fact, I would be surprised if anyone (esp here) agreed with me on much of anything, let alone something as personal as taste in music.

If I continue to disagree with you on a certain topic, it is because I simply do not agree with you. It has nothing to do with "winning", and everything to do with my own subjective preferences.

I notice this especially coming from males, online and elsewhere--if a woman disagrees with a man or men throughout the course of an argument, and there is no "resolution" to the argument where the woman eventually agrees with the man/men, this woman is accused of not being able to admit when she is "wrong."

How could my own personal tastes be wrong? How could yours be wrong?

The point of a discussion is to hear alternate viewpoints and express your own, not to come to some ultimate resolution where everyone bows down to one person's opinion.

I know that stereotypically, men are supposed to like competition, but this is just getting ridiculous. Conversations, no matter how controversial or full of disagreement, are not competitions, at least in my mind. Maybe *you* are trying to "win" an argument, but I'm not--I'm just expressing my own viewpoint. I look at what people are saying, and then type my own opinion. That is all. No one here knows me personally, so any mudslinging regarding my character (which has happened several times in this thread, even though I've not once called any individual's character into question here) is unfounded and largely based on projection.

Of course, we already went over this in a thought thread in more specific terms before, but it bears repeating here.

 

[michael]

Still, can't hold a candle to Cut Copy, who in my opinion wrote the pop hooks of the year.

Yeah, definitely the album I listened to most last year. I tried to get a thread going about it at the time it came about, but I think DJ PIMP was the only one who came to the party.

 

[mms]

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000073PP.02._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V58502867_.jpg

quite.

 

[UFO over easy]

Styles of music and "genres" of music and scenes are all very different things.

then how can you dismiss one solely on the basis of the others?

Why on earth do people here insist on believing that someone who vehemently disagrees with them is only doing so in some weird attempt to be "right" about something?

Projection, maybe?

your tone.

where geographically particular scenes have been superimposed over the world

Most new music that you mention is about "scenes", and scenesters are fucking pathetic.

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people have assumed that everyone shares their experiences

It's about how awful the music "scenes" are and how much I dislike them, and how most music that is supposedly good or cool now is based on an insular scene.

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and several people have been using the same words entirely ambiguously to mean different things without bothering to define them.

it took you about four pages after you dismissed them in their entirity to post up your own personal definition of the word scene, which i do disagree with (thanks for giving me permission)

 

[zhao]

those with eyes, let them see; those with ears, let them hear.

 

[mms]

those with eyes, let them see; those with ears, let them hear.

jesus christ is in the building.

'and the lord dids come upon the earth and he was vague.'

who do i make the cheque out too?

 

[nomadthethird]

then how can you dismiss one solely on the basis of the others?



your tone.





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it took you about four pages after you dismissed them in their entirity to post up your own personal definition of the word scene, which i do disagree with (thanks for giving me permission)

Can you read?

I did not dismiss all of *anything*, I said over and over that I like a lot of new tracks, but I do not like scenes or scenesterism.

If you cannot parse that distinction, frankly I feel sorry for you.

What "tone"? I'm the one who was jumped on by Zhao initially in this thread with some retarded attempt by him to condescend about how "older" people could never like a fucking MGMT song, followed by an even weirder assault on my personal taste (of course, it was way off track and made no sense, but I've come to expect this much from Zhao) condescending to me about "sullen and dreary" BDDC (which is NOT sullen, or dreary, it's actually upbeat, even though some songs are in minor keys, I guess that's too difficult a distinction to make as well).

Where is the ire for this?

Where is everyone's self-righteous indignation for MMS's fucking scene bashing?

It's only bad if I do it, of course, I'm the only one who isn't allowed to have a strong opinion or be "condescending" without getting a fucking workup by everyone on the goddamn board about it.

It's fucking ridiculous.

Zhao, if anyone on earth is self-righteous acting on here, it's you. You constantly condescend to me for no reason, then if I react, you act like I'm out of line.

Frankly I've had enough.

 

[nomadthethird]

Of course, the "proper" end to this thread, in order to assuage the obviously very tenuous egos here, would be for me to say,

"Heaven's no, you are right! The dubstep scene is nothing like the italo scene! Dubstep heads are obviously not as lame as italo heads! There's nothing inherently objectionable in my mind about insular, members only cliques being the keyholders to what's cool."

"I also hereby renounce all things that you don't like, and defer to everything you've said in the thread, and to your masculine superiority in all things"

There, does your penis feel bigger again?

 

[UFO over easy]

I did not dismiss all of *anything*, I said over and over that I like a lot of new tracks, but I do not like scenes or scenesterism.

yeah and im defending scenes, as I think they can be valuable, and are as different from one another as the people who contribute to them...

you can seperate our argument from your arguments with mms and zhao too, if it makes you feel like less of a victim. i did think you were matey with zhao though, it's a shame if thats not the case anymore.

i responded to you (i should've held back) because i thought you were being needlessly obnoxious -

e.g

Can you read?

You can flatter yourself that I actually give a rat's ass what your opinion is, but that won't make it true.

certainly more so than anyone else in the thread.


to answer your latest question, i think its interesting that you assume that getting involved in debate must necessarily be ego driven..

 

[nomadthethird]

It's the internet.

Should I be kissing your ass as I disagree with you?

Who gives a fuck?

I personally don't care, it doesn't bother me, Vimothy and I fight all the time, and I actually like him quite a bit as a poster-- but if everyone's going to do it to me, don't be surprised if I do it back.

 

[UFO over easy]

fair enough

 

[mms]

It's the internet.

Should I be kissing your ass as I disagree with you?

Who gives a fuck?

I personally don't care, it doesn't bother me, Vimothy and I fight all the time, and I actually like him quite a bit as a poster-- but if everyone's going to do it to me, don't be surprised if I do it back.

haha

 

[nomadthethird]

to answer your latest question, i think its interesting that you assume that getting involved in debate must necessarily be ego driven..

Actually, *I* didn't assume that. I only brought it up after several accusations from MMS that I couldn't "admit that I was wrong" [about what? I still have no idea. My opinion is not wrong, it's my opinion] because of my "ego."

But I suppose you may have skipped over that.

Go back and take a look, if you care--he says it at least 2 or 3 times before I finally respond to it.

 

[mms]

Actually, *I* didn't assume that. I only brought it up after several accusations from MMS that I couldn't "admit that I was wrong" [about what? I still have no idea. My opinion is not wrong, it's my opinion] because of my "ego."

But I suppose you may have skipped over that.

Go back and take a look, if you care--he says it at least 2 or 3 times before I finally respond to it.

you said this of me, not directed at me but as part of a larger argument:

'by accusing everyone who liked BDDC of only liking it because they were some sort of "jaded cokehead'

which you are wrong about as i have never said that, or anything remotely close to it, i haven't even said anything that could possibly be mis-translated as being close to that, and thats no basis to even start a decent argument about anything.
That's why i've said you're wrong. but i don't care either i think it's boring i've said that more times than i've said you're wrong.

 

[zhao]

jesus christ is in the building.

'and the lord dids come upon the earth and he was vague.'

who do i make the cheque out too?

NGOMA soundsystem. thanks.

what i wanted to say with that vague biblical quotation is this:

what is lacking is not good new music, only the lack of desire or ability to recognize it in those who make such proclamations.

 

[nomadthethird]

then how can you dismiss one solely on the basis of the others?



your tone.





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it took you about four pages after you dismissed them in their entirity to post up your own personal definition of the word scene, which i do disagree with (thanks for giving me permission)

By the way, UFO, those quotes up there about the problems in this thread? That was me openly admitting that I'd participated in those problems.

But I suppose that eluded everyone, too.