Mgmt

[nomadthethird]

So... imaginary scenarios that you assume happen, then?

As far as this may stretch your imagination, these "scenarios" actually do happen, and often.

 

[nomadthethird]

no its because you've casually dismissed all new music as you imagine it's about 'scenes,' even though (and i repeat my first statement about this) i've djed lots of different types of music this year and it's all gone down really well, people have danced and enjoyed it because it's good. If you dismiss modern music, that's fine but don't create an argument which ignores the central point of the first statement i made.

There are people who make modern italo etc, over here and buy it and dj it etc, and it's alot more clicky than going to a club like fwd, which is dubstep.grime.funky etc, people want that music to be popular, while the retro italo thing is about collecting records etc, and a kind of distant irony, much more like electroclash in a way, much more 'private party' than commercial venture, i'm not nostalgic for anything but i do like to see people dance alot.

No, I didn't casually dismiss all new music. I said I don't like scene-based anything, and most of these new hyped electronic microgenres, whether you want to admit it or not, are actually quite reliant on little internet-based "scenes" for their imaginary popularity.

There's nothing wrong with unpopular music, but sometimes the supposed import and innovation of new music gets blown way out of proportion on the internet.

Everything is relative--the music market in the U.S. is HUGE. "Cosmic" or "italo" barely registers, beyond liberal arts attendees and a couple of internet rags run by them.

I would never presume to know what's going on in London, as I've said on here like ten trillion times. When I was talking I was talking about the North Eastern US which is where I live and work and listen to music.

 

[hint]

As far as this may stretch your imagination, these "scenarios" actually do happen, and often.

Did you read that on the internet?

 

[nomadthethird]

Did you read that on the internet?

Nope.

I worked for a record label when I was in college, and I have several friends whose parents are producers and songwriters.

It's not all that hard to find, honey. Look at the dubstep forum and try to tell me that there is no "dubstep scene"...

Please.

 

[mms]

Nope.

I worked for a record label when I was in college, and I have several friends whose parents are producers and songwriters.

It's not all that hard to find, honey. Look at the dubstep forum and try to tell me that there is no "dubstep scene"...

Please.

http://www.djhistory.com/

 

[bassnation]

It seems there are a lot of people in the UK who are nostalgic for raves, though, based on what I've read online.

oh yeah totally. i am myself, although i actually want to enjoy myself when i go out, so i try not to measure things like they were twenty years ago, otherwise i'd be disappointed.

the uk is constantly reviving the rave memory thing, its a cultural gift to future generations, something genuinely cool that belongs to us, much like second or third generation british peeps with a JA background might explore their parents reggae collection.

don't let people get you down, i understand what you are saying.

 

[bassnation]

isn't this just meaningless though... you live in one place right? you're not really a nomad, freely hopping between every major city in the world, examining all the music scenes there are to see? how can you dismiss all these scenes when you've hardly seen any of them? does the word mean something different to you than it does to me?

oh come on. everyone knows there are good and bad sides to scenes. i know you've been a regular on the dubstep forum, you better than anyone know the koo with insular tight knit scenes. i am a product of tribalism as much as anyone, but once you get past your mid twenties you should really be moving beyond tribes and scenes, having a bit more of a nuanced above the wall kind of view. of course the positive side of scenes is the single minded focus and passion. but when i buy into scenes its conditional, when things move on or it turns shit, don't expect my loyalty.

 

[Sick Boy]

There's nothing wrong with unpopular music, but sometimes the supposed import and innovation of new music gets blown way out of proportion on the internet.

Import, yes. Innovation, no.
I don't think innovation and popularity have anything to do with each other at all.

 

[bassnation]

Import, yes. Innovation, no.
I don't think innovation and popularity have anything to do with each other at all.

unless we are talking about the kind of hipsters who might frequent this forum, in which case they are inextricably linked, and you knows it sonny.

 

[Sick Boy]

unless we are talking about the kind of hipsters who might frequent this forum, in which case they are inextricably linked, and you knows it sonny.

Well that's why I agreed that the internet blows the import of the music out of proportion. The surge in popularity of the music based on the fact it is perceived by others to be innovative comes after the fact. For instance, Burial is fairly innovative within his own particular genre, but the internet hype that got created around him afterwards totally distorted and overstated his importance and artistic merit within the bigger picture.

 

[nomadthethird]

Well that's why I agreed that the internet blows the import of the music out of proportion. The surge in popularity of the music based on the fact it is perceived by others to be innovative comes after the fact. For instance, Burial is fairly innovative within his own particular genre, but the internet hype that got created around him afterwards totally distorted and overstated his importance and artistic merit within the bigger picture.

Agree with this...

What I suppose I meant by "innovation" getting blown out of proportion is the way a new microgenre or subgenre will hit the internet, and then suddenly a minor tweak to an existing genre is supposed to be this amazing, mind-blowingly cool and out there New Thing.

 

[nomadthethird]

oh come on. everyone knows there are good and bad sides to scenes. i know you've been a regular on the dubstep forum, you better than anyone know the koo with insular tight knit scenes. i am a product of tribalism as much as anyone, but once you get past your mid twenties you should really be moving beyond tribes and scenes, having a bit more of a nuanced above the wall kind of view. of course the positive side of scenes is the single minded focus and passion. but when i buy into scenes its conditional, when things move on or it turns shit, don't expect my loyalty.

Agree with this, too.

I do think a lot of interesting tracks have come out of the new electronic microgenres, quite a few-- but in terms of total output, I don't believe you're less a "real fan" of Burial (or whoever, pick one) if you don't own every EP and LP that's been released on hyperdub.

There's a lot of authenticity baiting that goes on in the microgenres and their attending "scenes", and I think it's silly.

I've never been much of a fanboy, but then, I've never been much of a boy either.

 

[UFO over easy]

oh come on. everyone knows there are good and bad sides to scenes. i know you've been a regular on the dubstep forum, you better than anyone know the koo with insular tight knit scenes. i am a product of tribalism as much as anyone, but once you get past your mid twenties you should really be moving beyond tribes and scenes, having a bit more of a nuanced above the wall kind of view. of course the positive side of scenes is the single minded focus and passion. but when i buy into scenes its conditional, when things move on or it turns shit, don't expect my loyalty.

im still in my early 20s so at least i have that excuse..

this isn't really relevant though, i don't see why it should be anyway. a negative experience with one scene or one place shouldn't be a decisive reason to dismiss another (or all, in this case) out of hand

I don't believe you're less a "real fan" of Burial (or whoever, pick one) if you don't own every EP and LP that's been released on hyperdub

who said you should?

 

[mms]

oh yeah totally. i am myself, although i actually want to enjoy myself when i go out, so i try not to measure things like they were twenty years ago, otherwise i'd be disappointed.

the uk is constantly reviving the rave memory thing, its a cultural gift to future generations, something genuinely cool that belongs to us, much like second or third generation british peeps with a JA background might explore their parents reggae collection.

don't let people get you down, i understand what you are saying.

this just makes me yawn. Not everyone in the uk was listening to hardcore in 92, t's not a cultural gift to future generations, thats silly frankly. There are many things that are cool and british musically that mean something to people in different generations, like cliff richard if you're 60 or the smiths and the cure or whatever.
yeah some good music is a bit ravey but i'm not in the rave heritage industry for sure same as i'm not in any other revival industry. Some old music is great some new music is great,

 

[hint]

It's not all that hard to find, honey. Look at the dubstep forum and try to tell me that there is no "dubstep scene"...

I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a scene. But reacting to a list of styles of music by ranting about scenes, dismissing those styles of music because you can only engage with them as scenes and railing against "scenesters" but then writing something like:

dancehall is about as "rinsed" as you can get

... (which is a "scenester" statement if I ever I read one), is pretty ridiculous.

You might have a point if you were in a forum full of teenagers, but you're not.

"I don't go out much and I don't really follow club music, but I see the words Fidget House / Dubstep / BlahBlah written down and I totally have a jaded opinion on whatever that is and all the people who might express an interest in it".

 

[bassnation]

im still in my early 20s so at least i have that excuse..

this isn't really relevant though, i don't see why it should be anyway. a negative experience with one scene or one place shouldn't be a decisive reason to dismiss another (or all, in this case) out of hand

no, but as time goes on you experience burn out with the whole idea of devoting yourself to scenes, tending to cherry pick more. for me it involved a lot of time and energy, probably wouldn't do that with one genre or scene any more. but i'm nearly 40, lol.

 

[bassnation]

this just makes me yawn. Not everyone in the uk was listening to hardcore in 92, t's not a cultural gift to future generations, thats silly frankly. There are many things that are cool and british musically that mean something to people in different generations, like cliff richard if you're 60 or the smiths and the cure or whatever.
yeah some good music is a bit ravey but i'm not in the rave heritage industry for sure same as i'm not in any other revival industry. Some old music is great some new music is great,

depends what people we are talking about - the amount of time people spend chewing the fat about the 'nuum (i hate that abbreviation by the way) on this forum would suggest otherwise. lots of interest from people who weren't even born then.

and in fact if people take half of simons stuff seriously, rave is responsible for a sea-change in the uk in the same way punk did - descendent genres, even the way the club scene works in the uk has roots in what went on in the early nineties. sure, its just one more event in a flow of bigger events, but its all there to be listened to and loved by whoever. the fact theres other things out there too does not alter this contribution.

i don't like the idea of a rave revival industry btw. those records are as alive to me today as they were then.

 

[UFO over easy]

sure but that's not what people are objecting to

it's about -

reacting to a list of styles of music by ranting about scenes, dismissing those styles of music because you can only engage with them as scenes and railing against "scenesters"

no, but as time goes on you experience burn out with the whole idea of devoting yourself to scenes, tending to cherry pick more

if you're cherry picking you're still engaged at some level, you're still actively seeking out stuff you like. this is about a totally disengaged dismissal of anything based around a scene

 

[bassnation]

if you're cherry picking you're still engaged at some level, you're still actively seeking out stuff you like. this is about a totally disengaged dismissal of anything based around a scene

ok, accepted, but sometimes its healthy for people to rail against the idea of tribalism. at least it forces people to think about their level of engagement and focus, cos buying into one scene necessarily forces less engagement in others - there's only so much time and money to sink into music. i used to try to keep on top of so many releases, just found its fucking impossible practically. if it wasn't for forums like this i wouldn't be up on so much good music.

 

[mms]

depends what people we are talking about - the amount of time people spend chewing the fat about the 'nuum (i hate that abbreviation by the way) on this forum would suggest otherwise. lots of interest from people who weren't even born then.

and in fact if people take half of simons stuff seriously, rave is responsible for a sea-change in the uk in the same way punk did - descendent genres, even the way the club scene works in the uk has roots in what went on in the early nineties. sure, its just one more event in a flow of bigger events, but its all there to be listened to and loved by whoever. the fact theres other things out there too does not alter this contribution.

i don't like the idea of a rave revival industry btw. those records are as alive to me today as they were then.

thanks for the lecture, yeah i know the numm and the decree of the wise sage simon reynolds is the law around these parts, and i also know that people get dewey eyed and nostalgic for what they did in their late teens and 20's, hardcore is about as important for you as garage and jungle and dubstep are for people who were into them at that time, same as house or techno, pr the smiths and the cure, wu tang, blur and oasis, green velvet etc, depending on how far you were engaged it it all.

Yeah there is loads of old hardcore out there to be listened and loved it's all over ebay as aging ex djs sell their collections, as much as i love alot of old music i'm not nostalgic and i don't want to frame my past and my future through the eyes of a book i haven't even read, i enjoy whats new which is usually made by people who were usually about 9 when rave was happening and don't have a clue about it