Mgmt

[UFO over easy]

at least it forces people to think about their level of engagement and focus, cos buying into one scene necessarily forces less engagement in others

yeah definitely. i remember a good gutterbreakz post on single minded focus vs eclecticism..

 

[nomadthethird]

I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a scene. But reacting to a list of styles of music by ranting about scenes, dismissing those styles of music because you can only engage with them as scenes and railing against "scenesters" but then writing something like:



... (which is a "scenester" statement if I ever I read one), is pretty ridiculous.

You might have a point if you were in a forum full of teenagers, but you're not.

"I don't go out much and I don't really follow club music, but I see the words Fidget House / Dubstep / BlahBlah written down and I totally have a jaded opinion on whatever that is and all the people who might express an interest in it".

When did I *ever* dismiss "styles" of music? Ever?

By the way, the point about dancehall being "rinsed" was making fun of the idea that you can't like an artist because someone in London who apparently does coke (although I have no idea what this would have to do with anything) does.

And the way "jaded" is getting thrown around is really amusing to me. What person who's older than 20 dives in head first to any scene whose music interests them?

The people here, a lot of them in the music threads especially, are very into dubstep and grime scenes.

Good for them if that's what they want to do--I don't have to like it.

 

[nomadthethird]

im still in my early 20s so at least i have that excuse..

this isn't really relevant though, i don't see why it should be anyway. a negative experience with one scene or one place shouldn't be a decisive reason to dismiss another (or all, in this case) out of hand



who said you should?

Oh, that's how so much of this shit is spoken about, especially online.

If you don't have every last dubstep release that was ever made, you're just one of those people who only likes things because they're "cool", or, as we've already witnessed in this thread, my personal favorite, "because Kpunk likes it."

I think it's very "teenage" behavior to get all wrapped up in scenes.

It's very teenage boy behavior.

 

[nomadthethird]

Also, it's more than a little ironic that I'm being accused of being unfairly dismissive to music based only on the "scenes" surrounding it, while MMS started this entire subpoint by accusing everyone who liked BDDC of only liking it because they were some sort of "jaded cokehead."

I'm the one who said that I like a lot of random tracks, but I have no interest in being part of a "scene" of any kind, anywhere, at any time, ever.

How crazy of me, I can't believe I said that.

 

[nomadthethird]

Also, I go out a whole lot, I used to go out basically every night, and I never went to trendy music clubs or whatever, I just went out to neighborhood dives.

Not everyone is into the nightclub scene, sorry you're taking that news so hard.

 

[UFO over easy]

Oh, that's how so much of this shit is spoken about, especially online.

If you don't have every last dubstep release that was ever made, you're just one of those people who only likes things because they're "cool", or, as we've already witnessed in this thread, my personal favorite, "because Kpunk likes it."

I think it's very "teenage" behavior to get all wrapped up in scenes.

It's very teenage boy behavior.

cool. personally i think it's very teenage behaviour to casually dismiss things you know very little about and then sulk when people call you out on it.

 

[nomadthethird]

Here we go again.

Anyone who doesn't like something dislikes it only because they don't know about it.

Or maybe, just maybe, a person could dislike scenes because they've witnessed firsthand how fucking ridiculous they are.

That could be it.

 

[nomadthethird]

Who is sulking?

I'm openly discussing this, not sulking.

 

[UFO over easy]

and we're back to square one. to 'know' something does not imply that you have to own all the releases, go to every party, memorize catalogue numbers... some people out there might believe that but you are suggesting that this is the view of an entire scene (not an entire scene, ALL scenes, ever) to suit your position as the romantic outsider, pouring scorn on people having fun together and interacting with each other in a way that makes them happy.

when you choose to interact with any art, you are not blindly conforming to one single interpretation of that art, and what it means to engage with it.

 

[nomadthethird]

I did not imply, nor have I ever implied, that no one could possibly genuinely like music that has a scene attached,

IN FACT, that is EXACTLY the point I was making to mms--

I like BDDC *despite* there being some sort of scene attached to it thousands of miles away that I've never heard of, nor do I care about it.

I don't care if people have fun, I'm just saying, SCENES ARE NOT FUN FOR ME.

 

[nomadthethird]

Why is this so difficult a concept for some people to grasp? Jeez.

 

[UFO over easy]

SCENES ARE NOT FUN FOR ME.

and im saying that means nothing because all scenes are different.

now that we have gone full circle and achieved precisely nothing, i will use this opportunity to leave thread to go hang out with my friends and compare the conditions of our hyperdub sleeves.

 

[nomadthethird]

All scenes are different?

They also all have certain fundamental characteristics, this is how we can use a single word to define them.

All scenes have a group of "insiders" who control an aesthetic and ostensibly attain to be that aesthetic's gatekeepers. This, to me, is not especially conducive to "art" making, especially considering the broader commerical interests that are often working behind the scenes (no pun intended) and often take over.

Scenes all rely on a sense of "authenticity" which all of its members are required to define and practice. Different scenes have different definitions of "authenticity", but they all have one.

Personally I don't like anything that's about "authenticity", I think it's boring and lame.

You are entitled to disagree.

 

[mms]

it, while MMS started this entire subpoint by accusing everyone who liked BDDC of only liking it because they were some sort of "jaded cokehead."

no i didn't, i was describing my experiences of dodgy italo nights and the attitude of the people that go there , not of 'black devil disco club' who i just think didn't do very good music after that initial release from the 70's. once again you misrepresent with bullshit strawmen arguments, if you want to back it up with anything remotely close to what i have said, rather than the false generalisation that you draw upon when you haven't got the humility to admit that you might infact be have taken the wrong tack in the first place, then let me know. I'd rather you let it lie though as it's getting a bit dull really.


i can't be bothered to go into the merry go round of what i initially said about the music i'm enjoying and how i'm enjoying playing it but it's as close to what you've mentioned above :

'I'm the one who said that I like a lot of random tracks, but I have no interest in being part of a "scene" of any kind, anywhere, at any time, ever.'

in a more meticulous, saturated and hyperenthusiast way, ie i'm not so random my mind boggles with the miriad of opportunities, the creativeness the plain enthusiasim and talent of the music i focus around (or not as it seems the www is a thrower upper of random 'fuckin ell' from god knows where moments than the nonsense you've come up to dismiss these arguments without having even read them - this is the overall problem with this thread, you're basically misreading everything cos you seem to have to win an argument at any cost? no?

'you are entitled to disagree' pfft

 

[bassnation]

thanks for the lecture, yeah i know the numm and the decree of the wise sage simon reynolds is the law around these parts, and i also know that people get dewey eyed and nostalgic for what they did in their late teens and 20's, hardcore is about as important for you as garage and jungle and dubstep are for people who were into them at that time, same as house or techno, pr the smiths and the cure, wu tang, blur and oasis, green velvet etc, depending on how far you were engaged it it all.

Yeah there is loads of old hardcore out there to be listened and loved it's all over ebay as aging ex djs sell their collections, as much as i love alot of old music i'm not nostalgic and i don't want to frame my past and my future through the eyes of a book i haven't even read, i enjoy whats new which is usually made by people who were usually about 9 when rave was happening and don't have a clue about it

look mate, like i said pretty much the same as you for me old and new music is one flowing river of pleasurable sensations. you know we are pretty similar music wise and we are arguing about agreeing, really, aren't we?

and btw, into all of those things you mentioned. not as mono-generic as you'd like to paint me. apart from oasis, which is a big warm bucket of sheeps vomit, no matter what anyone says or does. seen?

 

[nomadthethird]

was describing my experiences of dodgy italo nights and the attitude of the people that go there , not of 'black devil disco club'

Are you fucking kidding at this point, MMS?

Let's go back through the thread, shall we, and pick up your quotes?

that whole scene is about a certain type of distanced jadedness and alot of gear, over here anyway and a really narrow view of what makes good disco too quite often.

but italos so rinsed out, that in london anyway, people will just play any 80s eurotrash crap with an arpeggio and some badly sung broken english, for the sake of looking cool to their mates, its quite backward anyway, quite collectory that scene, does my head in when there is so much good new music. Disco's such a massive and varied global genre, its got so much more to give than that rubbish.

Also the original black devil's not really an italo disco record, in that it's unconnected with italo, doesn't sound like an italo record, was a 1978 french record, it's got a moogier, more live feel, like alot of the french disco stuff but it's unusual for sure.

The new black devil stuff, is just modern versions of the original track, not got the warmth and energy, anyone could have done that and stamped their name on it really, that's the problem with it.

there is enough of loads of different genres to play like disco djs played, different styles, diff speed, everything from funky, to wonky instrumental hip hop stuff, good dubstep and grime, bassline, dancehall, techno and world electronic music stuff, fidgit house stuff, new disco, tropical stuff etc.. loads of stuff thats great for dancing rather than music for jaded idiots on coke to pose to. [this, of course, is a statement made in contradistinction to music e.g. BDDC]

 

[mms]

Are you fucking kidding at this point, MMS?

Let's go back through the thread, shall we, and pick up your quotes?

So right, we can conclude that at no point have i ever said:

nomadologist:' started this entire subpoint by accusing everyone who liked BDDC of only liking it because they were some sort of "jaded cokehead."'

i helped bring the original record to light when i worked at the place that rereleased it, spending hours tracking it down and running the pr and production for it, so why would i say that, it's one of my favorite disco records.

i've simply said i don't like the new recent modern black devil records which isn't a criticism of anyone who does, and that i think certain italo nights are full of jaded cokey people, its really got nothing whatsoever to do with the new black devil disco club records, which i've said i dont like, but as you can see from the collection of things you've copied and untruthfully paraphrased, this has fuck all to do with that record at all, why would it?




heres what i actually said, not the edited bits you've put over to try and make me look bad, and anyway so what if i don't like the new black devil records, who gives a fuck, i wasn't talking about that at all.:


me:''there are a whole bunch of good italo records and some of the clone type things that progress and mix it up with italo are great, but italos so rinsed out, that in london anyway, people will just play any 80s eurotrash crap with an arpeggio and some badly sung broken english, for the sake of looking cool to their mates, its quite backward anyway, quite collectory that scene, does my head in when there is so much good new music. Disco's such a massive and varied global genre, its got so much more to give than that rubbish.''

thats not about black devil is it?

me: ''that's not what i mean, as i've said above i love disco etc, but there is so much good music about and that whole scene is about a certain type of distanced jadedness and alot of gear, over here anyway and a really narrow view of what makes good disco too quite often. It's hilarious how you tend to not remember any posts less than 2 posts back.''

describing the london italo scene, not the black devil record.


me:''i don't think the new black devil stuff is very good at all, is it ok to do that ?
It's a pale imitation of the original. I'm not saying its like crappy italo stuff.''

i don't like the new black devil records - so what, i've even said there its not the bad italo that i don't like as well.

me: ''no, good music though there is a hell of alot of good dubstep out there at the mo if you forget about the crap,
there is enough of loads of different genres to play like disco djs played, different styles, diff speed, everything from funky, to wonky instrumental hip hop stuff, good dubstep and grime, bassline, dancehall, techno and world electronic music stuff, fidgit house stuff, new disco, tropical stuff etc.. loads of stuff thats great for dancing rather than music for jaded idiots on coke to pose to.''

describing the trash that gets played on the london italo scene... i also said the original black devils not an italo record ffs, which you've already covered in that weird selection of quotes that you have used to illustrate your 'point'

so whats the big deal?

you lost the plot ages ago when you started ranting about 'scenes' so no need to start paraphrasing and carefully editing what i've said to try and win this one really.... you should drop it, the only thing i've criticised, ( too harshly in retrospect) cos people can do what they like, is the london italo scene and the people there as it seems like a massive dead end to me, when there is so much good other shit about.
All this has been pretty easy to understand.
Obviously somehow thats given you a good chance to steer the conversation toward taking it personally, almost immediatley ..
it's also bloody boring, but i don't want to be misrepresented so you can attempt to win a lousy argument cos your ego can't deal with being wrong on this one.

 

[hint]

When did I *ever* dismiss "styles" of music? Ever?

Here?:

Most new music that you mention is about "scenes", and scenesters are fucking pathetic.

most of these new hyped electronic microgenres, whether you want to admit it or not, are actually quite reliant on little internet-based "scenes" for their imaginary popularity.

Or maybe, just maybe, a person could dislike scenes because they've witnessed firsthand how fucking ridiculous they are

Sorry if I'm misreading your posts here, but your primary criticism of the music mentioned was "it's about scenes". It comes across as very dismissive. Any attempts to steer it back to discussion of the music resulted in more peculiar attacks on scenes.

 

[dave]

Aaaaaaaaaanyway MGMT are rad.

 

[don_quixote]

and so are bddc. although DISCO CLUB eh