Corpsey
bandz ahoy
'Course, bruv. He's the one on the right, for once.
He's still got his finger on the pulse.
Reynolds hardcore continuum event
- Thread starter heva
- Start date
He's still got his finger on the pulse.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
On the pulse x?
That's the only frame i could find where both hands weren't down there.
Unfair. He came across pretty well really, less earnest and intense than I expected.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Back to the topic at, er, hand, it seems like there are (at least) two seperate arguments coming out of this thread + associated blog posts - the first is whether the hardcore continuum continues to be a useful or interesting way to look at UK dance music, and the second is whether modern UK dance music is less vital and creative and exciting than, say, junglist hardcore circa 92. (I guess a third is whether recent blog posts from SR about UK dance culture have been particularly interesting or relevant, but I'll leave that aside for the moment.)
But it seems that by making the second argument, K-Punk and Reynolds are actually undermining the first. If the pirate radio plus dubplates plus east london plus dancefloor-centricism styles around at the moment aren't doing it for them any more, then presumably a model which was basically created by SR to explain why the music produced by that scene / culture / environment is so exciting is no longer a particularly good description of it. Or at least needs a fair bit of reworking.
To be honest I'm more interested in the approach that gek seemed to be getting at where the whole thing looks like a gradual dispersal of an initial energy, maybe a gradual (and not entirely simple) reversion to their previous holding patterns of a bunch of different approaches to music that had been explosively jammed together by hardcore. Or maybe an underlying basic pattern of fairly stable evolution that was temporarily overtaken by a massive peturbation of the system, which then decayed away to leave the original shape reasserting itself. I dunno, is UK dance culture heading towards a modernised version of the 70s / 80s holding pattern?
But it seems that by making the second argument, K-Punk and Reynolds are actually undermining the first. If the pirate radio plus dubplates plus east london plus dancefloor-centricism styles around at the moment aren't doing it for them any more, then presumably a model which was basically created by SR to explain why the music produced by that scene / culture / environment is so exciting is no longer a particularly good description of it. Or at least needs a fair bit of reworking.
To be honest I'm more interested in the approach that gek seemed to be getting at where the whole thing looks like a gradual dispersal of an initial energy, maybe a gradual (and not entirely simple) reversion to their previous holding patterns of a bunch of different approaches to music that had been explosively jammed together by hardcore. Or maybe an underlying basic pattern of fairly stable evolution that was temporarily overtaken by a massive peturbation of the system, which then decayed away to leave the original shape reasserting itself. I dunno, is UK dance culture heading towards a modernised version of the 70s / 80s holding pattern?
yep. yep.
I really like this take on it - a Big Bang Theory with Punctuated Equilibria. The big bang being the Energy Flash resulting from a one-off convergence of cheap digital production technology, pharmacology, socioeconomic context, which left behind the equivalent of microwave background traces of the original sounds that energise and echo in and around the 'cooling' post-rave debris of jungle, breaks, dubstep, 2step, speed garage, grime. This cosmological model makes more sense to me than the continuum idea, which is just too linear and fragile.
And another thing, has the sudden removal of the nuclear threat in the late 80s and early 90s ever been identified as contributing to the psychological pressure release that permitted the boundless optimism of early uk dance music? Or was that all down to a sudden surfeit of serotonin? I was certainly happier when I stopped superimposing mushroom clouds over every vista.
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benjybars
village elder.
on Gek's thoughts about creative "resources" running out...
I think I see some truth in his model, but see it as only one dimension of the issue. The creative resources that are running out, are the collective creative possibilites limited within the confines of a temporal social vision stirred up by capitalism/modernism. This sense that some of us have, that things should be producing at the same rate as they had during some of the more brilliant periods of recent history, is obviously an illusion of, even a withdrawl from the rushes of, the promises of modernism, that is itself, as an addictive memetic ideal, a (potentially creative) element of the modern age that is running out of miles, at least for now.
I think the problem in Gek's model is that art isn't so much totally creative, as much as a process of finding possibilites that are kind of eternally there to be used in new ways. Like the idea that the statue is already there in the marble, or when jazz musicians talk about "finding" music that's already out there in the universe... There are infinite possibilites waiting to be unleashed by new forces, while there are, at the same time, certain primary creative elements that continue to be the main stuff of every new art form, that never fade away. This shit ain't over, even if a more accelerated futurism, in its recognizable forms, probably is.
But yeah the possibilites aren't created, they're more like an expressive diametric reflection of the forces accessing them; found through a dynamic of projection and reflection that brings forth intentional and accidental permutations alike.
What DOES run dry though, at least temporarily until the next cycle, are the more particular and timely details... the less univeral specifics bound within the confines of temporary vernaculars and meanings. I don't mean primary elements/substance/themes like red, sadness, rhythm, delirium, E maj, etc, but more defined elements like Emo, the Amen break, etc. These particulars are more like simulations, biased and specific interpretations of more timeless things, so they have less potential and staying power, but can be extremely charged, vital, and productive during the lifespan of their usefullness. ...Although some particulars can be so definative that they can almost achieve timeless status, like they almost tapped some perfect ideal: certain bands, pieces, sounds... hell, the Amen and certain other breaks seem to be pretty timeless examples of rhythm that might yet have more uses (and further, everything, pulling back, becomes kind of a poignant expression of both the specific and the eternal)...
These more particular details can perhaps be considered simulations or illusions representing aspects of the real that we eventually see through, only to replace with new illusions... and I'd speculate that these "resources" that are running out right now are of that nature (in this case, modernist illusions), not the infinite, eternal stuff.
I think I see some truth in his model, but see it as only one dimension of the issue. The creative resources that are running out, are the collective creative possibilites limited within the confines of a temporal social vision stirred up by capitalism/modernism. This sense that some of us have, that things should be producing at the same rate as they had during some of the more brilliant periods of recent history, is obviously an illusion of, even a withdrawl from the rushes of, the promises of modernism, that is itself, as an addictive memetic ideal, a (potentially creative) element of the modern age that is running out of miles, at least for now.
I think the problem in Gek's model is that art isn't so much totally creative, as much as a process of finding possibilites that are kind of eternally there to be used in new ways. Like the idea that the statue is already there in the marble, or when jazz musicians talk about "finding" music that's already out there in the universe... There are infinite possibilites waiting to be unleashed by new forces, while there are, at the same time, certain primary creative elements that continue to be the main stuff of every new art form, that never fade away. This shit ain't over, even if a more accelerated futurism, in its recognizable forms, probably is.
But yeah the possibilites aren't created, they're more like an expressive diametric reflection of the forces accessing them; found through a dynamic of projection and reflection that brings forth intentional and accidental permutations alike.
What DOES run dry though, at least temporarily until the next cycle, are the more particular and timely details... the less univeral specifics bound within the confines of temporary vernaculars and meanings. I don't mean primary elements/substance/themes like red, sadness, rhythm, delirium, E maj, etc, but more defined elements like Emo, the Amen break, etc. These particulars are more like simulations, biased and specific interpretations of more timeless things, so they have less potential and staying power, but can be extremely charged, vital, and productive during the lifespan of their usefullness. ...Although some particulars can be so definative that they can almost achieve timeless status, like they almost tapped some perfect ideal: certain bands, pieces, sounds... hell, the Amen and certain other breaks seem to be pretty timeless examples of rhythm that might yet have more uses (and further, everything, pulling back, becomes kind of a poignant expression of both the specific and the eternal)...
These more particular details can perhaps be considered simulations or illusions representing aspects of the real that we eventually see through, only to replace with new illusions... and I'd speculate that these "resources" that are running out right now are of that nature (in this case, modernist illusions), not the infinite, eternal stuff.
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optimum
Poochie
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
seconded. a perfect storm of circumstance.
surely someone must have mentioned it? seems right up SR's alley, all his late 90s writing is full of bizness about "pre-millennium dread" & that. also though in counter to that, the (visible - don't forget most of the those nukes are still around hopefully gathering dust in their silos - not to mention Pakistan/India/etc. - cheerful thoughts) end of nuclear war/fall of USSR etc. didn't have a similar affect on other music. I mean think of early 90s hip hop, the gtr music of that era (grunge, shoegaze, hell the those were the prime yrs of the 2nd wave of black metal which I think can be very much viewed in the light of the end of the USSR).
xpost
lol it is weird when hes playing all these amazing tunes (he really played some blinders - i might have to go back through this video and note down all the tracks played) and hes just sitting there motionless, but its a lecture - what dyou want him/the audience to do? start shocking out in their seats?!
lol it is weird when hes playing all these amazing tunes (he really played some blinders - i might have to go back through this video and note down all the tracks played) and hes just sitting there motionless, but its a lecture - what dyou want him/the audience to do? start shocking out in their seats?!
This is basically the theory of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, transplanted into the cultural sphere...
Perhaps what it really refers to are the diminishing creative resources of this kind of theorizing...
'Course, bruv. He's the one on the right, for once.
k-punk in smart shirt and shoes... he's obviously off to a funky rave after the seminar
