Pretentious Crap

[nomadthethird]

I am interested whether - as a self-identified narcissist - you feel that these statements tally or contradict your experience.

First of all, I am not a "self-identified" narcissist that resembles anything described in that passage.

The passage conflates a bunch of unrelated disorders and criminal behaviors.

Malignant narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder have nothing to do with the sort of narcissim that is common that Agent and I were talking about. The passage also conflates sociopathy with narcissism in ways that are frankly baffling to me. It was clearly written by someone who has only a basic grasp of these terms.

Second, like I said above, pedophilia and narcissism are not necessarily related. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything or why it is included in there.

 

[josef k.]

But you do seem to agree on this point:

"But malignant narcissism is perverted self-love. In fact, it isn't really self-love. It's self-hatred. The person "suffering" from NPD hates himself and loves his IMAGE instead. He makes it look good the easy way — by making others' images look bad by comparison. That makes him a predator on the image of everyone around him. Everyone."

Or at least, the first half of this point.

 

[nomadthethird]

Your description of narcissists:

"Narcissists are deeply traumatized people. Most of them were excessively punished and/or abused by their parents or other authority figures. After being told or otherwise made to feel that they were bad or worthless, the narcissist suffered intense feelings of guilt, shame, and emotional pain that overwhelm him. As a result, the narcissist hates himself. To avoid further trauma, he creates a new self, a false self, one that he thinks is worthy of love and attention, and impervious to insult and pain, and projects that one to the world. The false self is not a pure fabrication, instead it is a partial view, usually made up only of the good things-- the accomplishments, the good qualities, the fun self, the tough self--usually one that the abuser couldn't find fault with or injure."

Which you affirm in your own case, seems quite malignant, and out of the ordinary.

And, excuse me, but I never once "affirmed" that it was "malignant" or "out of the ordinary" in my "case", which you've really heard nothing about, and know nothing about.

 

[josef k.]

You affirmed that you were yourself a narcissist, based on this description. It seems to me you describe a malignant condition here. No?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Who wrote this? My guess is that this was not written by a professional in the field.

Not someone who knows all that much about chimps, at any rate: they certainly do eat meat - http://www.janegoodall.org/chimp_central/chimpanzees/behavior/hunting.asp

 

[nomadthethird]

But you do seem to agree on this point:

"But malignant narcissism is perverted self-love. In fact, it isn't really self-love. It's self-hatred. The person "suffering" from NPD hates himself and loves his IMAGE instead. He makes it look good the easy way — by making others' images look bad by comparison. That makes him a predator on the image of everyone around him. Everyone."

Or at least, the first half of this point.

Yes, there is a clinical disorder called "malignant narcissism", a wiki of which I've already linked to in fact in a discussion and which you claimed to read.

But I'll recap anyway.

Malignant narcissism is a form of narcissism that has become malignant or PATHOLOGICAL, which means, in psychological terms, that instead of being generally harmless to others/themselves, like narcissists, malignant narcissists are harmful to others and often become violent or predatory.

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism

now COMPARE it to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_(psychology)

 

[nomadthethird]

You affirmed that you were yourself a narcissist, based on this description. It seems to me you describe a malignant condition here. No?

What about "malignant narcissism and narcissism are two different conditions" do you not understand?

We've been over this twice now in two different threads.

 

[josef k.]

I don't understand why the condition you describe yourself as suffering from isn't malignant. It sounds quite malignant to me. Certainly, it seems to match up, at least in certain important respects, with the chimp-cretin's description of malignant narcissism.

 

[nomadthethird]

Plus, that passage is really ridiculous in a lot of ways.

You can't teach someone to be a narcissist in school. It takes a lot of independent factors working together that you'd never be able to orchestrate perfectly from the outside. Narcissism is a family disease, like addiction.

It almost reminds me of those people who think that gay people want to teach kids to be gay and recruit in the schools. Yes, while we're at it, why don't we just round up anybody who seems to have had a rough childhood because they're at a high risk of being a narcissist and throw them in a prison camp. That way we'll be safe. *draws blinds, paces nervously*

 

[nomadthethird]

I don't understand why the condition you describe yourself as suffering from isn't malignant. It sounds quite malignant to me. Certainly, it seems to match up, at least in certain important respects, with the chimp-cretin's description of malignant narcissism.

No, it doesn't.

I did not EVER tell you ANYTHING about MYSELF and MY CASE.

I gave you a clinical definition of what the typical life story of narcissist might look like.

My life and personality looks nothing like the passage you've posted. I have never hurt anyone, ever. I am not a pedophile. I do not hold public office. I am not a predator.

 

[josef k.]

Your description of your own narcissistic condition as characterized by "intense feelings of guilt, shame, and emotional pain... As a result, the narcissist hates himself" matches up with the chimp-cretin's point about malignant narcissism revolving around self-hatred, though.

 

[nomadthethird]

Josef, you clearly didn't even read the generalized descriptions of narcissism.

Most people are narcissistic to some degree--in fact, I think you are to a degree that you yourself are terrified to admit.

If you're going to try to use the fact that I admit that I have narcissistic tendencies to try to equate me with a pedophile and a predator based on some jackass rant on an idiotic blog, because your mind is too tiny to fit a distinction between pathologic conditions and regular ones, that's your problem. Not mine.

 

[josef k.]

But you do seem to agree on this point:

"But malignant narcissism is perverted self-love. In fact, it isn't really self-love. It's self-hatred. The person "suffering" from NPD hates himself and loves his IMAGE instead. He makes it look good the easy way — by making others' images look bad by comparison. That makes him a predator on the image of everyone around him. Everyone."

Or at least, the first half of this point.

Edit: Most people are narcissistic to some degree, yes. But I'm not sure that most people suffer from "intense feelings of guilt, shame, and emotional pain," to the extent they hate themselves. This kind of condition seems quite malignant to me. Quite pathological. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[nomadthethird]

Your description of your own narcissistic condition as characterized by "intense feelings of guilt, shame, and emotional pain... As a result, the narcissist hates himself" matches up with the chimp-cretin's point about malignant narcissism revolving around self-hatred, though.

All narcissism revolves around trauma. Not all narcissism is pathological and not all narcissists are predators.

This is not a difficult concept. You are being willfully obtuse because you like trying to equate me with a pedophile and predator.

You are sad.

 

[nomadthethird]

But you do seem to agree on this point:

"But malignant narcissism is perverted self-love. In fact, it isn't really self-love. It's self-hatred. The person "suffering" from NPD hates himself and loves his IMAGE instead. He makes it look good the easy way — by making others' images look bad by comparison. That makes him a predator on the image of everyone around him. Everyone."

Or at least, the first half of this point.

Are you retarded?

Yes. All narcissists love their IMAGES and hate themselves. Not all narcissists are predatory "malignant" narcissists.

 

[nomadthethird]

Edit: Most people are narcissistic to some degree, yes. But I'm not sure that most people suffer from "intense feelings of guilt, shame, and emotional pain," to the extent they hate themselves. This kind of condition seems quite malignant to me. Quite pathological. Wouldn't you agree?

No. I wouldn't agree.

In fact, I think you are a raging narcissist. But I don't think you are a malignant narcissist. BECAUSE THERE IS A CLINICAL DISTINCTION BETWEEN NARCISSISM AND MALIGNANT NARCISSISM.

 

[josef k.]

I don't think you are a predator or a pedophile. But you do seem to be in a lot of pain.

 

[nomadthethird]

I have been before, but probably not more or less than many other people.

Many psychoanalysts believe narcissism is actually a default mode because the most natural thing in the world for people to do is to protect themselves from the outside world when the world they live in is a scary place.

 

[nomadthethird]

It's funny, Josef, because you talk about someone have intense feelings of "guilt, shame, and emotional pain" as if that is somehow pathological in and of itself.

Is it pathological, for example, for a child of 4 who is repeatedly beaten and told that they're stupid and they'll never amount to anything, or who is punished excessively for the most minor infractions (forced to sit in the corner all day with no dinner for spilling their milk) to feel intense feelings of guilt, shame, and emotional pain over time? To feel like there must be something wrong with them otherwise why would they be treated like this?

Because children who experience these things, especially from a very young age, are the type of children who typically become narcissists. (They are at the highest risk.)

 

[josef k.]

It's funny, Josef, because you talk about someone have intense feelings of "guilt, shame, and emotional pain" as if that is somehow pathological in and of itself.

It is annoying that you always seem compelled to put words in my mouth.