nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
I like autotune. Were it not for autotune, I'd have to actually hear the infernal racket that is Britney Spears' "voice" on a regular basis...
Music that is psychedelic
- Thread starter IdleRich
- Start date
I like autotune. Were it not for autotune, I'd have to actually hear the infernal racket that is Britney Spears' "voice" on a regular basis...
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Oh please, please, don't get that one started up. Not that Dissensus is really the sort of place where people are going to get into that, but...
It's really more or less a "rockist" invention. Sure, pop music is more and more compressed (and therefore louder), but we've also switched to entirely digital means of production and distribution. Get over yourself old white guitar rockers. The reason we have to use compression is to avoid distortion at higher decibel levels (in digital format), from what I understand. You do lose some dynamic range, but I would argue that the most compressed sorts of music--R&B, hip hop, bubblegum pop--are the types of music that favor a more futuristic, sleek, slick sound anyway, and don't miss having a full dynamic range. In fact, losing dynamic range probably makes bad vocals less noticable.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Any other time I would've just laughed--didn't know there was a site like that "let me google something for you"--but after a day of tedious forms and manuals and telephone talking I was just not in the mood.
Hi Whatever.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Some of those old white guitar rockers can give as good as they get, though: the '90s reissue of The Stooges' Raw Power is probably the loudest music I own, including any amount of techno, d'n'b and so-heavy-it's-actually-funny industrial-metal. I mean it sounds great, it's just kind of annoying when I'm listening to something else and then that comes on, and I have to lunge for the volume control to avoid deafening myself.
What a great welcome.
What a great welcome.
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As far as the question of the masculinity/femininity of psychedelia.... that's something I've considered a lot and... at least at the moment I'd say that it's ultimately androgynous/neutral/balanced. This would be due to, I think, the psychedelic mind's sort of holistic, all-encompassing, all-inclusive thing...
There's definitely the Lunar/irrational/oceanic aspects of course, and there is the argument that an expansive, universal receptiveness is feminine/Lunar...
...but from what I've picked up, that all-inclusiveness, that totality in the psychedelic worldview prisms out to include nearly every archetype/resonant principle. It seems to encompass the full spectrum. You have your Holy Fools, Children, Earth Mothers, Warriors, Fathers, Hermits, Loonies, Wise Men, Witches, Wizards, Priests, Shaman, Seducers, Seductresses/Sirens, Virgins, Scientists, Good Guys, Bad Guys, Princes, Paupers, etc etc etc etc... One could maybe argue that this would be the case in any genre, but Metal is pretty much all male, all Barbarian/Warrior, all aggressive. I think one of the things that makes a lot of people averse to psychedelia or the idea of hippies in general might be the total inclusivity, maybe mistaken for a lack of discernment (although of course that is sometimes the case).
More superficially, masculinity-wise, there was that husky, hairy masculine thing in a lot of the more heavy late-60s, early 70s Psych and proto-Metal (think the scuzzy sleazebag seducer in "Magic Carpet Ride"), but personally I'm thinking that this was more the product of the sexual revolution than the psychedelic one, more a symptom of the times' reactionary indulgence (and all the weed). Eros is there sometimes in psychedelia, but really... anyone ever tried having sex while tripping? Not very pleasant.
But yeah, if anything, that kind of "vision" of psychedelia expands to a larger view where the Solar and Lunar are married (which calls to mind the symbolic androgeny of some Shamen). For all the Lunar irrationality, there's the Solar vision and clarity and revelation. Think of some of the jams. Jams could be described as expansive and receptive, but there's usually a central clarity/gaze intrepidly charging into the center, kind of a phallic singularity, the Logos eternally arriving towards a knowingness with the Other. For instance, for all the any-way-the-wind-blows philosophy of the Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia's "noodlings" were actually usually very on-point, summing up the central point of the Idea as it continued to change and expand.
There's definitely the Lunar/irrational/oceanic aspects of course, and there is the argument that an expansive, universal receptiveness is feminine/Lunar...
...but from what I've picked up, that all-inclusiveness, that totality in the psychedelic worldview prisms out to include nearly every archetype/resonant principle. It seems to encompass the full spectrum. You have your Holy Fools, Children, Earth Mothers, Warriors, Fathers, Hermits, Loonies, Wise Men, Witches, Wizards, Priests, Shaman, Seducers, Seductresses/Sirens, Virgins, Scientists, Good Guys, Bad Guys, Princes, Paupers, etc etc etc etc... One could maybe argue that this would be the case in any genre, but Metal is pretty much all male, all Barbarian/Warrior, all aggressive. I think one of the things that makes a lot of people averse to psychedelia or the idea of hippies in general might be the total inclusivity, maybe mistaken for a lack of discernment (although of course that is sometimes the case).
More superficially, masculinity-wise, there was that husky, hairy masculine thing in a lot of the more heavy late-60s, early 70s Psych and proto-Metal (think the scuzzy sleazebag seducer in "Magic Carpet Ride"), but personally I'm thinking that this was more the product of the sexual revolution than the psychedelic one, more a symptom of the times' reactionary indulgence (and all the weed). Eros is there sometimes in psychedelia, but really... anyone ever tried having sex while tripping? Not very pleasant.
But yeah, if anything, that kind of "vision" of psychedelia expands to a larger view where the Solar and Lunar are married (which calls to mind the symbolic androgeny of some Shamen). For all the Lunar irrationality, there's the Solar vision and clarity and revelation. Think of some of the jams. Jams could be described as expansive and receptive, but there's usually a central clarity/gaze intrepidly charging into the center, kind of a phallic singularity, the Logos eternally arriving towards a knowingness with the Other. For instance, for all the any-way-the-wind-blows philosophy of the Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia's "noodlings" were actually usually very on-point, summing up the central point of the Idea as it continued to change and expand.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I like the idea of psychedelia ultimately transcending binaries like male/female, and I love your roll call of Jungian archetypes too, especially the complementary pairs (mother/virgin, scientist/priest, prince/pauper). The word 'Hermit' makes me think of Jimmy Page's 'fantasy segment' in The Song Remains The Same, haha.
I'm really not sure how much time I have for this line of reasoning, though...probably very little. However I guess you're talking in explicitly metaphorical or poetic terms (if that's not oxymoronic), so it'd be a mistake to take things too literally here.
I think this could be levelled even more strongly at the rave scene, particularly the New Age/'candy raver' end of the spectrum. Shit, that's the second time in an hour I've used the phrase 'candy raver'...
No, and I can't say I'm keen to: I imagine it'd be too, well, confusing. And probably not in the good way.
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The word 'Hermit' makes me think of Jimmy Page's 'fantasy segment' in The Song Remains The Same, haha.
yeah actually the Hermit in the foldout of Zeppelin IV, and that in scene you mention, was lifted from one of the more iconic illustrations of "the Hermit" of the Tarot. The Hermit representing a time to go off by yourself and study, rethink, and regroup (Jesus in the desert or whatever). I think the resonance of the Hermit for Page was almost undoubtedly related to his interest in Hermetic Magick, ceremonial-style Theurgy of the Crowley/Golden Dawn variety, traced (purportedly) to the ideas of (the fictional) Hermes Trismegistus (kind of a fusion of Hermes and Thoth, and the "father" of Hermetic branch of the occult). Not that I'm into that particular stuff myself (I find Hermeticism pretty fascistic and elitist, and kind of lean towards the opposite side), just very interested in religion.
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Complexities and variables in life aside of course, I'm only engaging and analyzing music via a language of traditional symbolic building blocks, fully aware that it's somewhat of a closed system. I can only assure anyone here, whether they care to believe or not, that I don't subscribe to any simplistic notions that everyone falls into perfect cookie-cutter stereotypes, but I still find a lot of relevance and meaning in some mythic and symbolic systems (or at least find 'em to be useful, if not the only, means for interpreting music and some other things).
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yeah, totally... you always would see a little bit of every subculture at raves, which was a cool thing.
yeah, well that's it, it's like cock-rock only wobbly, or prog or psy-trance or basically anything that becomes a phenom and commoditized... it becomes competetive... heirachy, posession, ordering, neutered through extremes.
i also think saying psychedelics are post-gender or more feminine that masculine is a crock of shit. look at 60s hippies. i'm sure there were a variety of intentions floating around but really people did a lot of fucking under whatever kind of guise you want to put it.
at least, it certainly doesn't gel with my experience. i've been tripping for real and i'm still basically a tiny, tiny brain attached to a big bag of nuts.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
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agree with the main point but incidentally, ironically, robert plant often sounds exactly, exactly like a woman.
i heard this rare elvis record a friend gave me after i dismissed him as a copycat, and it's all really moody sad songs, and the king of rock'n'roll on this record also sounds very, very much feminine.
relatedly: in the extremely polarized gender roles of traditional japanese society, music and art, especially music, altogether is seen as feminine, belonging to the realm of women, and not any kind of worthy activity for real men (who alternately wage war and sit in tense silence).
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I agree with the you that the 'loudness wars' cobblers is just another guise of 'everything was better in my day sonny' (unless I'm wrong & thats not what you mean?) but, the bolded bit is totally wrong, from a technical standpoint anyway. Compression is distortion, the idea is to make things sound loud even when they aren't, so heavily compressed program material played back at high decibel levels is loud loudness.
Compression & distortion alot like junk, the more you have the more you use, the more you use the more you need.
Sorry for the OT but I have nothing to contribute, with regards to psy-anything... I'm with these guys;
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
When Plant's really squeezing the lemon I think he actually sounds more high-pitched than most female singers. But this just makes me think of the well-known 'magickal' properties of distorted or inverted gender roles...and Julian Cope's brilliant rebuttal to the Cradle Of Filth 'song' Jesus Is A Cunt that Jesus was, if anything, a prick, and that a really cunty deity would be someone like Odin.
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hey, that interpretation's all subjective, Mr Tea. Odin was a total douche, while Jesus was a pretty cool guy.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Ah, sorry, my post was obviously easily misconstrued by someone unfamiliar with Cope's formalism of cuntology.
For him it's a term of high praise; he describes himself - without a trace of self-deprecation - as a "real cunt", for example. He's using it a way that consciously echoes ancient semantic resonances about womanhood, fertility, birth and life in general (and, given half a chance, will talk your ear off about how the word is cognate with words like 'Queen', 'cunning', the river Kennet in England, ad nauseam). He calls Odin a cunt because he (Odin, I mean) is apparently initiated into deeply feminine magic traditions, which is why I brought it up in the context of gender-bending brain-magic in psych rock. I can't actually find any quote where he calls Jesus a prick, so I may have made that bit up - but even so, it's not necessarily perjorative, if understood simply in terms of masculinity as 'cunt' is to femininity.Edit: here, fifth paragraph onwards - http://www.headheritage.co.uk/addressdrudion/44/2002 (he also discusses the super-loud 1997 remix of Raw Power that I mentioned a few posts ago!)
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sigh, I was wondering when with the strawman was coming. Thinking... "hmm, Tea's being unusually tolerant of these unquantifiable terms... where's the inevitable dismissal or parody?"
sometimes I think that maybe I should put a disclaimer at the bottom of my posts: [I'm just talking about music here, do not mistake it for for my religious outlook (although it may or may not be related at times) just because I sometimes find semiotics intrinsic to art]
but still, this is a thread about psychedelia. psych is sexually neutral or androgynous. it's influenced by a mindset that turns things into big Eternal Ideas.
that Jungian list wasnt just wankery, I really think that psychedelic music tends to have an unusually wide and colorful cast of characters. As far as the willingness to use mystical or symbolic idioms, eh, they seemed suited for, and very much a part of the subject. There are plenty other motifs I could have used for the genre, but we were talking about its masculinity/femininity. *shrugs* Even if you find religiose or Jungian terms silly, psychedelia is, for a very large part, written in that language. You don't have to believe in the stuff, or semiotics in general, to see its relevance and huge role in music/art. Hell, semiotics are even a hugely important, if not essential part of marketing and politics (or at least politiks).
I'll try to sound more sensibly arrogant and dismissive next time I address music on its own, irrational terms.
sometimes I think that maybe I should put a disclaimer at the bottom of my posts: [I'm just talking about music here, do not mistake it for for my religious outlook (although it may or may not be related at times) just because I sometimes find semiotics intrinsic to art]
but still, this is a thread about psychedelia. psych is sexually neutral or androgynous. it's influenced by a mindset that turns things into big Eternal Ideas.
that Jungian list wasnt just wankery, I really think that psychedelic music tends to have an unusually wide and colorful cast of characters. As far as the willingness to use mystical or symbolic idioms, eh, they seemed suited for, and very much a part of the subject. There are plenty other motifs I could have used for the genre, but we were talking about its masculinity/femininity. *shrugs* Even if you find religiose or Jungian terms silly, psychedelia is, for a very large part, written in that language. You don't have to believe in the stuff, or semiotics in general, to see its relevance and huge role in music/art. Hell, semiotics are even a hugely important, if not essential part of marketing and politics (or at least politiks).
I'll try to sound more sensibly arrogant and dismissive next time I address music on its own, irrational terms.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Eh? Where have I been dismissive? I think all this stuff is totally fascinating...anyway, I've got to rush out now, might address it at greater length tomorrow.
BTW I genuinely liked your list of archetypes, I thought it was cool...