the cops

M

massrock

Well-known member
crackerjack said:
Sure, they might have thought anti-globalists would run riot in the city left unchecked, but schoolkids at some green trespass a few weeks later (all arrested in their homes prior to the demo)?
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Well exactly they are being politicised / used as a political force.

You know some of these guys aren't necessarily that sophisticated in terms where they get their information from and of course it's very easy to become part of a prevalent culture in an organisation, it's totally natural.

The example I always think of is working in retail. Anyone who's worked in retail or with a team that works with 'the public' in that way knows the way a certain us / them attitude can develop. So you have to be very careful in managing the way those perceptions arise, this is down to training. It doesn't matter so much with shop staff taking the piss out of custies but sometimes it's more important.

You saw the footage of the search of a climate camp protestors bedroom that was taken by his father where the police where searching for material of a 'political nature'. There seemed very little awareness on the part of that policeman what that actually meant and the implications of it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2009/apr/19/police-activism
 
M

massrock

Well-known member
crackerjack said:
What, you think police actions are completely unrelated to the powers at their disposal? :confused:
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Did I say that?

No, you said it was 'dead simple', they will use whatever powers given them. i.e. that's all it is.

I think I see something else at work. It's about attitude and culture and understanding of roles.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
massrock said:
Did I say that?

No, you said it was 'dead simple', they will use whatever powers given them. i.e. that's all it is.

I think I see something else at work. It's about attitude and culture and understanding of roles.
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OK, but you seemed to be implying that this was all about some institutional group think. But that has always been a factor in determining police/public relations, maybe exarcebated in recent years by anti-terror scaremongering, but recent police heavy-handedness has hardly been directed solely against Muslims.

I think govt directives and laws are more important - there was a slow reduction in police freedom to sidestep the law in the wake of the wave of wrongful convictions, going over the top during Thatcher's war on unions, Stephen Lawrence etc. That hasn't been entirely undone, but lately Nu-Lab has been a bit cannier in its methods of enablement.
 
M

mms

sometimes
scottdisco said:
anyone know anyone who's been stopped and searched under anti-terror legislation? a couple of good mates of mine have.
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all my 'brown' friends, all of them a few years ago at least, any friend who's north african or looks arabic, including an italian friend, they've all been searched several times.
 
M

massrock

Well-known member
crackerjack said:
OK, but you seemed to be implying that this was all about some institutional group think. But that has always been a factor in determining police/public relations, maybe exarcebated in recent years by anti-terror scaremongering, but recent police heavy-handedness has hardly been directed solely against Muslims.
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No that's right, not just muslims, but the mindset is one of fear and defensiveness generally, and there is this dreadful obscene conflation of political activism and all sorts of things with terrorism. You know that, this is the worst thing and that it's not obvious to police that they are being used. It should be obvious.
crackerjack said:
I think govt directives and laws are more important - there was a slow reduction in police freedom to sidestep the law in the wake of the wave of wrongful convictions, going over the top during Thatcher's war on unions, Stephen Lawrence etc. That hasn't been entirely undone, but lately Nu-Lab has been a bit cannier in its methods of enablement.
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What do you mean sidestep the law? This is the thing, you seem to think 'the police' will inherently just try and get away with whatever they can if not reigned in. The question is why? What would they be trying to achieve? I don't think that's necessarily the case but if it is so then that's an institutional problem that needs to be tackled.

Of course these things are not unrelated, there is surely a trickle down or even a direct influence of govt. directive to police attitudes but there must be clarity about the role of the organisation so this isn't so much of an issue.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
No that's right, not just muslims, but the mindset is one of fear and defensiveness generally, and there is this dreadful obscene conflation of political activism and all sorts of things with terrorism. You know that, this is the worst thing and that it's not obvious to police that they are being used. It should be obvious.
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I'd agree to a small extent, significantly less than you believe, though.

What do you mean sidestep the law?
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Beating confessions out of suspects, for instance.

This is the thing, you seem to think 'the police' will inherently just try and get away with whatever they can if not reigned in. The question is why? What would they be trying to achieve?
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It makes their job easier, reduces crime (they might believe), produces rewards for the relevant hierarchy.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
massrock said:
Sorry not sure what you mean.

You'd agree with what significantly less than you think I believe?
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I mean the phenomenon you've been outlining in your last several posts is an influence, but significantly less of one than you appear to believe.
 
S

scottdisco

rip this joint please
great blog post John!

some very sobering feedback from your own - or that of friends wrt mms, very depressing - experiences.
Matt eek :slanted:

my pals were stopped under anti-terror, and not searched (sorry, should have clarified), at least not searched IIRC. one of them didn't mind it (he was on the South Bank quite late one night); the other bloody well did (in the West Country IIRC).

Amnesty International today (16 October) expressed concern after a man died in County Durham, three days after he was shot with a Taser electro-shock weapon and a baton round. Brian Loan, 47, is believed to be the first person in the UK to die after being shocked with a Taser. A Home Office post-mortem reportedly found that he had died of natural causes. ...A March 2006 report from Amnesty International revealed that since June 2001, 152 people have died in the USA after being shot with tasers, 61 in 2005 alone. Most were subjected to multiple or prolonged shocks. In 23 US cases coroners have listed the use of the taser as a cause or a contributory factor in death and in three cases in 2005 the taser was listed as a primary cause of death.' ...Our research in the USA shows that Tasers can kill. Amnesty is worried that their increasing use in the UK is a slippery slope towards arming all police officers with Tasers. We want a public statement from the Home Office that these weapons will only ever be used by trained firearms officers, as an alternative to firearms.
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Amnesty UK, 17 October 2006
 
J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
john eden said:
Stopped, but not searched:
http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2007/12/have-you-met-the-met/

The cops were searching people in Clapton, Hackney a few weeks back and it looked like they had a quota thing going on. First guyI saw was a black kid with a hoodie. Then on my way back 'round they were searching a middle aged white commuter in a suit.
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The idea that the police should be randomly stopping and searching people - anyone - with no probable cause is totally crazy, and is the symptom of a police state.
 
M

massrock

Well-known member
I think people in Berlin have a better perspective on this generally. From there it looks utterly insane.
 
D

droid

Guest
None of this is anything new really is it? Just more sophisticated versions of stuff that's been going on for decades.
 
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