straight edgers on richrd and judy
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Tactics said:
"Don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck/At least I can still fucking think."
pompous bores..
scroll down here, john has written some good stuff on it
http://chaos.org.au/uncarved/index.php?m=200502
Diggedy Derek
Stray Dog
It showed some ridiculously aggressive, arm-thrashing air punching dancing at what were described as straight edge gigs. They were taking up most of the dancefloor. It was pretty anti-social, as well as rather melodramatic, two things that seem very against the straight edge ethos to me. Weird- I wonder what gig it was?
At All Tommorow's Parties I was straight-edge for a whole weekend because I was driving. It was OK actually, seeing music is generally pretty exciting even without drugs of one sort or another.
At All Tommorow's Parties I was straight-edge for a whole weekend because I was driving. It was OK actually, seeing music is generally pretty exciting even without drugs of one sort or another.
Jesse D Serrins
Well-known member
That would be a sad state of affairs if music were only worth something when you were blasted.
Jesse D Serrins
Well-known member
Diggedy Derek said:
-moshing
blogpost linked to upthread is great, never heard of Youth of Today. very very very funny. interesting to read a uk perspective on this stuff, since some acquaintance with "sXe" is part of a young white american male's education on all things punk, and it's crass that's the wierd thing from overseas.
a good friend of mine grew up in Washington DC, ground zero of straightedge, and from his stories I've gathered that it's important to recognize some measure of class antagonism in it. sXe kids were usually locals and "the enemy" was embodied in 80s era young GOP hill staffers, budding Reaganites, and above all drunk cokehead Georgetown fratboys. not that guys like that were a <i>physical threat</i> to young punk kids, but with militant skinhead sXe the reverse was definitely true...
imagine a cross btw oliver cromwell and revenge of the nerds.
a good friend of mine grew up in Washington DC, ground zero of straightedge, and from his stories I've gathered that it's important to recognize some measure of class antagonism in it. sXe kids were usually locals and "the enemy" was embodied in 80s era young GOP hill staffers, budding Reaganites, and above all drunk cokehead Georgetown fratboys. not that guys like that were a <i>physical threat</i> to young punk kids, but with militant skinhead sXe the reverse was definitely true...
imagine a cross btw oliver cromwell and revenge of the nerds.
I was sxe for about 5 years in my late teens, early 20s. Straight edge is a offshoot primarily of us hardcore, rather than british or american punk, if you know what i mean.
It's a wierd scene, populated with people who are basically gangs, animal rights and eco-fascists as well as nerdy kids who listen to soft, barely punk music and a whole lot of people inbetween.
I brely listen to any hardcore anymore, but thats basically because oday's hardcore predominantly doesn't sound like the hc I grew up with, and the stuff that does sound liket he stuff I grew up with I have quite enough of thank you. But it's also because I don't have any hc friends here and I find that my listening to music is a very social thing - if I an't talk to someone about it, I find it hard to sustain the obsessive interest I like to have.
It can be a very positive scene, but it can also e incredibly self-righteous. My wife's younger brother went sxe last ear. t's a good thing for him, by and large. He was fucking up opportunities through pot, and I can understand needing to cut yourself off completely into to get anway from stuff like that. Ask any ex-smoker how hard it is to quit and still lead exactly the same life otherwise. But he kept saying 'I need to be sxe to do more for the scene' which is nonensical bullshit.
The biggest problem is, as another ex-sxe friend said, it's a scene where the most important thing is apparently being true to yourself (it's a dominant lyrical trend), but in which changing was the the worst thing you could do (another dominant lyrical trend).
Not really. At the risk of sounding like an old fart, the current crase for 'kickboxing' as a style of dancing isn't moshing. It's being a cock.
Hardcore dancing used to be, as a friend put it, more contact but less violent. It used to eb a big agressive crush but if you fell over people would pick you up etc. Now peopl aim at each others heads and about three people can dance at anyone time.
I could talk about this stuff all day, but that's what 10 years of being dedicated to one thing will give you.
If you all ask niely I'll put a picture of my sxe tattoo up.
It's a wierd scene, populated with people who are basically gangs, animal rights and eco-fascists as well as nerdy kids who listen to soft, barely punk music and a whole lot of people inbetween.
I brely listen to any hardcore anymore, but thats basically because oday's hardcore predominantly doesn't sound like the hc I grew up with, and the stuff that does sound liket he stuff I grew up with I have quite enough of thank you. But it's also because I don't have any hc friends here and I find that my listening to music is a very social thing - if I an't talk to someone about it, I find it hard to sustain the obsessive interest I like to have.
It can be a very positive scene, but it can also e incredibly self-righteous. My wife's younger brother went sxe last ear. t's a good thing for him, by and large. He was fucking up opportunities through pot, and I can understand needing to cut yourself off completely into to get anway from stuff like that. Ask any ex-smoker how hard it is to quit and still lead exactly the same life otherwise. But he kept saying 'I need to be sxe to do more for the scene' which is nonensical bullshit.
The biggest problem is, as another ex-sxe friend said, it's a scene where the most important thing is apparently being true to yourself (it's a dominant lyrical trend), but in which changing was the the worst thing you could do (another dominant lyrical trend).
Jesse D Serrins said:
Not really. At the risk of sounding like an old fart, the current crase for 'kickboxing' as a style of dancing isn't moshing. It's being a cock.
Hardcore dancing used to be, as a friend put it, more contact but less violent. It used to eb a big agressive crush but if you fell over people would pick you up etc. Now peopl aim at each others heads and about three people can dance at anyone time.
I could talk about this stuff all day, but that's what 10 years of being dedicated to one thing will give you.
If you all ask niely I'll put a picture of my sxe tattoo up.
gff said:
youth of Today have much more to do with what xe is like these days than Minor Threat, who realy have very little to do with the development of the scene.
Ray Capo (singer of YoT) basically made sxe the national and international 'movement' it is today. And continued to have influence like making sxe kids interested in hare krishnabecause he became a cultist etc.
Jesse D Serrins said:
That's an interesting thing. Some music IS better blasted off your head. It's designed to be, and to imply some kind of moral judgement about that is a bit wierd to my mind (which is why I'm not sxe anymore). That being said, if music has no value except when off your face, well that is a bit wierd, but I'm sure lots of people on here have found themselves fascinated by some wierd thing (like the noise of an airconditioner) while high.
But while there is music I prefer to be blasted for, I almost never even drink at the rare hardcore show I get to these days. It doesn't seem like the right thing to be doing...
believekevin
Well-known member
straightedge!
i still get psyched by youth of today, gorilla biscuits, minor threat, etc. i go to diy hardcore shows from time to time as it's really active and fun in boston. unfortunately, it's been kind of an infinite loop musically (with a few exceptions.) since the late-90s or so, all the movements in hardcore have been revival based (thrash, youth crew, emo, etc..)
i still get psyched by youth of today, gorilla biscuits, minor threat, etc. i go to diy hardcore shows from time to time as it's really active and fun in boston. unfortunately, it's been kind of an infinite loop musically (with a few exceptions.) since the late-90s or so, all the movements in hardcore have been revival based (thrash, youth crew, emo, etc..)
I used to have some Youth of Today albums (sold off most of my guitar-involved cd's in a financial crisis a couple years ago - wish I hadn't) wasn't there some connection between them and Shelter? It's been so long since I listened to (that kind of) hardcore that I can't really remember any more.
Jesse D Serrins
Well-known member
Melchior said:
I'm right with you Melchior- I mean, I was but a wee lad when Minor Threat was out and about, I kinda got into sXe hardcore (albeit rather briefly) mainly through Fugazi then on to Minor Threat and discovering that New Haven, CT, where I'm from, had a scene going. This was back in early adolescence, when everyone I was in school with was all hyped about Phish, which put me off intensely. The moshing I was bruised by was something in between the two poles you described- you'd get pummeled ruthlessly, lots of floor pounding and windmilling, but you also got picked up if you got knocked down. I have no idea where it's at now, but I became disinterested in the whole deal after maybe a two year stay, because I've never been one to pledge allegiance and my life led me elsewhere.
I think dogma with regards to music is always pretty absurd, and I'd be lying if I said I'd never had some insane experiences with my mind blown and my ears taking in all sorts of shit. I just generally feel like it's pretty easy to amuse someone who's fucked, it's a lot more powerful when the music itself can take you there. It's funny because I think some of the values presented through straight edge mean a lot to me in an abstract sense now, but indeed the fascist aspect of it is just ridiculous. My mind is mine to alter or not as I please.
i am slightly amazed that dissensus has grazed into this topic.
straight edge has pretty much died out in the US punk scene it seems, with most of the main crop of current hardcore bands that were straight edge (primarily located in boston) broke edge a few years back.
also most of the east coast gangs (not sure about the west coast) also broke and are much less aggressive.
similar to most things in the US punk scene it will probably crop up again in a few years.
straight edge has pretty much died out in the US punk scene it seems, with most of the main crop of current hardcore bands that were straight edge (primarily located in boston) broke edge a few years back.
also most of the east coast gangs (not sure about the west coast) also broke and are much less aggressive.
similar to most things in the US punk scene it will probably crop up again in a few years.
matt b
Indexing all opinion
i saw a video of some modern 'moshing' the other day- full on ritualised bollocks- you couldn't get further away from the "aggression without violence" (verbal assault) original.
shelter= porcell and ray cappo of YoT gone pop/krishna.
i made many of my best friends through HC. we were all SxEx at some point. we met up at ATP last weekend got pissed.
there hasn't been a good SxEx HC record released since about 1989.
there hasn't been a good HC record released since about 1994.
shelter= porcell and ray cappo of YoT gone pop/krishna.
i made many of my best friends through HC. we were all SxEx at some point. we met up at ATP last weekend got pissed.
there hasn't been a good SxEx HC record released since about 1989.
there hasn't been a good HC record released since about 1994.
Diggedy Derek
Stray Dog
Yes, that was exactly my point. If I was in the band, I'd want people to stop it so everyone could get involved.
you are right it can be extremley self righteous, and very macho, people threatening to punch you in the face for smoking but can't talk to girls or see that music can be fun fun fun..
i think people who were in that scene (people i know anyway) either get into it as a reaction to familes etc, ie stupid nazi brothers and drunk parents, and then it gets very serious, almost monklike.
when people see the light for what it can be, ie extremely conservative but basically good, they usually just wind it down and grow up or become more fucking extreme, smackhead black metal fans etc, people who really liked it for the extremety.
i think people who were in that scene (people i know anyway) either get into it as a reaction to familes etc, ie stupid nazi brothers and drunk parents, and then it gets very serious, almost monklike.
when people see the light for what it can be, ie extremely conservative but basically good, they usually just wind it down and grow up or become more fucking extreme, smackhead black metal fans etc, people who really liked it for the extremety.
Jesse D Serrins
Well-known member
pretty please could we see your straight edge tattoo?