Iranian democracy

[padraig (u.s.)]

Most likely he said this: "Mousavi has said protesters are ready for martyrdom, a witness told Reuters." Which we already know is true, assuming the suicide bomber report was true (& was a genuine protester). Maybe a bit of wishful thinking on the part of the twitterers? Plus the unavoidable chinese whispers aspect.

yeah it sounds more plausible. of course, who knows? the call for a strike sounds more plausible as well.

also that suicide bomber report sounds iffy, false flag & that.

 

[four_five_one]

also that suicide bomber report sounds iffy, false flag & that.

Yeah, and of course Khamenei already laid the grounds for such disinformation/simulation yesterday when he said: "Street demonstrations are a target for terrorist plots. Who would be responsible if something happened?"

I think there's going to be a natural tendency for protesters to idolize Mousavi and attribute to him saintly qualities that he might not possess, which is why we're right to take these supposed martyrdom statements with a pinch of salt.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I think there's going to be a natural tendency for protesters to idolize Mousavi and attribute to him saintly qualities that he might not possess, which is why we're right to take these supposed martyrdom statements with a pinch of salt.

agreed. that's why I find the calls for a general strike to be much more plausible.

actually, in re: to Vim's questions a few pages back about the regime's short-term vulnerabilities - surely a widespread, widely observed general strike has got to be high on the list? tho it's a tactic which has had mixed success/results. probably again it would come down to thresholds for how much individuals, large groups of ppl, & regime are willing to bear.

still, a vulnerability - if widely observed.

 

[vimothy]

12:43 pm: Iranian state media reportedly lying about what Obama is saying:

This morning a friend of NIAC who gets Iranian Satellite TV here said that state-run media showed President Obama speaking about Iran this morning. However, instead of translating what he actually said, the translator reportedly quoted Obama as saying he “supports the protesters against the government and they should keep protesting.

Assuming this report is correct, it shows the Iranian government is eager to portray Obama as a partisan supporting the demonstrators.

http://niacblog.wordpress.com/

Again from another source:

12:35 PM ET -- "U.S. behind the attacks." A reader sends in this unverified note: "Hi I'm located in Dubai but we have access to Iranian State T.V. here. I just witnessed a program on official state television depicting young Iranians with there faces blurred 'testifying' to visiting the U.S. and being trained and told by the americans to cause unrest and chaos in Iran."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html

 

[four_five_one]

^ Incredible... RT from Iran: State TV showing staged interview with a detainee saying he had orders from Monafeghin in Britain!! #iranElection #gr88

 

[crackerjack]

just been watching bbc news - no one's buying that 'bomb'. no pics, nothing to back it up. but in teheran, this is escalating as the evening goes on

 

[josef k.]

in teheran, this is escalating as the evening goes on

the fighting?

 

[josef k.]

Possible next steps:

1) Arrest Moussavi (they surely can't kill him).

2) A statement from Rafsanjani?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

@Vim - yeh, what a shock. ironically earlier today I saw the Hammer of Kraut going at Obama on Fox Nws for not doing enough (which, I mean, there's something to that, but the neocon line on it is just soooo disingenuous & disgusting). can't win, I guess.

1) Arrest Moussavi (they surely can't kill him).

why not? the regime/death squads got away with killing Oscar Romero in El Salvador. just remember - plausible deniability. "persons acting on their own not under govt control".

 

[...]

 

[...]

I thought I caught the tortured spasms of Bush's dying "Freedom Agenda" quite well here. (Shameless stab at late-in-the-day self-promotion, cough.)

Edit: or me being anguished.

Only to say, this has been rumbling around the region for a while; it's no surprise. And it's good.

 

[vimothy]

Really good article by a brave Roger Cohen:

TEHRAN — The Iranian police commander, in green uniform, walked up Komak Hospital Alley with arms raised and his small unit at his side. “I swear to God,” he shouted at the protesters facing him, “I have children, I have a wife, I don’t want to beat people. Please go home.”

A man at my side threw a rock at him. The commander, unflinching, continued to plead. There were chants of “Join us! Join us!” The unit retreated toward Revolution Street, where vast crowds eddied back and forth confronted by baton-wielding Basij militia and black-clad riot police officers on motorbikes....

 

[josef k.]

Stirring stuff.

 

[scottdisco]

2 british hostages executed in Iraq - keeping Iran off the news for the moment. Connection? Or were they held by Sunnis?

my gut (at least initially) said this has nothing to do with it. however, i will link to

Five British civilians kidnapped in Baghdad last month are being held by a group trained, funded and armed by Iran, according to the US commander in Iraq.
General David Petraeus said he believed that the Britons - four security guards and a consultant - were taken by a "secret cell" of the Mahdi Army, the Shia militia loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.
There had been repeated efforts to free the men, Gen Petraeus said, and "a very intensive effort" was in place to find the group who he believes were abducted in retaliation for the killing of Abu Qader, the militia's leader in Basra.

"We think that it is the same network that killed our soldiers in Karbala in an operation back in January," he said.

He said that the head of that network was killed less than a week before the Britons were captured by Mahdi Army members. He did not believe the fighters who captured the workers were ordinary "rank and file" members. "They are trained in Iran, equipped with Iranian [weapons], and advised by Iran," he told the Times. "The Iranian involvement here we have found to be much, much more significant than we thought before.

"They have since about the summer of 2004 played a very, very important role in training in Iran, funding, arming."

21 June '07

and

Five British hostages who were kidnapped in Iraq almost a year ago are being held inside Iran by Revolutionary Guards, according to two separate sources in the Middle East and London.

The hostages were handed over to the Revolutionary Guards by their Iraqi kidnappers last November, the sources believe. One of the sources said they were being held in the western Iranian city of Hamadan.
...
According to one of the sources, they are under the control of Mohammad Safaei, 41, a senior Revolutionary Guard colonel who was previously in charge of special operations in the southern Iraqi city of Basra.

The hostages were kidnapped in Baghdad last May in an attempt to force the Americans to release Qais al-Khazaali, an Iraqi militia leader said to be close to the Revolutionary Guards.

Khazaali was apparently being groomed by Iran to take control of a breakaway faction of the Mahdi Army, a Shi’ite militia, that would be compliant with Tehran. A former chief spokesman for the Mahdi Army, Khazaali was arrested by US troops after masterminding a raid inside a base in which five US soldiers were killed. The Americans have refused to release al-Khazaali in exchange for the British hostages.
One of the sources, who has close links to the Revolutionary Guard, said the captors were looking for a face-saving way of freeing them.
...
The suggestion that the hostages are in Hamadan follows contradictory claims earlier this month that they were in Tehran. This is the first time it has been claimed they are in the hands of Revolutionary Guards. One of the sources has previously proved to be a reliable source of information about them.

27 Apr '08

parochially OT (extravagantly, perhaps offensively so) but i must also applaud Richard Seymour trying to undo some of the damage that Yoshie person has put up on his page.
all that said, Seymour carried those virtual Hizb banners for some time on the TOMB and once said in a Haloscan discussion there he supported the killing of then-UN mandated coalition troops by insurgents (IIRC the discussion was re-framed and someone asked, theoretically, do you support the killing of blue-collar, w/c US troops by insurgents, to which Seymour gave the same commitment of yes; i say IIRC because i don't have the phrasing down pat but i do characterise the thrust of it correctly).

i admire the guy's honesty and occasional dry wit.

for all those that don't know Craner's two main politics blogs - that's the one he has just linked to, and the older A Time For Fear - are both very good reads. (try his CITTA VIOLENTA too.)

 

[vimothy]

That was via Andrew Sullivan, who also has a translation of Mousavi's latest communique. It's also good, actually.

 

[josef k.]

So, who is willing to make some predictions?

 

[josef k.]

Sullivan is practically messianic.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

good old-fashioned, low-tech solidary - a green T-shirt & a sharpie

take that well-meaning clueless IPOD liberals! with your "proxy servers" & "DDOS" attacks...

 

[josef k.]

[Round of applause]

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

That was via Andrew Sullivan, who also has a translation of Mousavi's latest communique. It's also good, actually.

yeh it is actually. the language is quite poetic - thought Mousavi was meant to be a bit of a technocrat (tho obv he may not have written it word-for-word himself)? really rides the reverence for Khomeini card.

this:

In this, we are not confronting the Basij. Basiji is our brother. In this we are not confronting the revolutionary guard. The guard is the keeper of our revolution. We are not confronting the army, the army is the keeper of our borders. These organs are the keepers of our independence, freedom and our Islamic republic. We are confronting deception and lies, we want to reform them, a reform by return to the pure principles of revolution.

neat sidestep there. that's the ticket really - wrap yourself in patriotism, cast those in power as the betrayers of the revolution. it worked for the Zapatistas.