oasis split thank fuck for that

[IdleRich]

That was Glenn Hoddle.

Surely not karma from that born again Christian. He did say something like that though.
Edit - wrong he said exactly that

 

[shakahislop]

Is my memory playing tricks on me, or didn't the bloke from Kula Shaker get in trouble for saying disabled people were reaping bad karma from a previous life, and that he was pro-eugenics?

That was Glenn Hoddle.

totally wrong, that was mixed_biscuits

 

[Benny Bunter]

I refuse to believe that any Brit has ever liked or even listened to a nine inch nails song.

 

[shakahislop]

this isn't true though is it? Let me put my middle eastern triumphalism aside for one minute but there are plenty of people in Britain with all too common lives who don't listen to the Editors or Oasis.

A lot of this seems to be the whole racist idea of Brits feeling marginalised in their own country because they are white/cis/het. But the working class does not see power in its alienation and its marginalisation from the political community, only the bourgeois and petit-bourgeois do. Mark was too conciliatory to the labour party, and the BBC which is why biscuits and the iq magical thinker were able to join in the hayday. All blame lies with craner and Luke in that respect, they didn't make k-punk totalitarian enough! and that is no joke!

yeah you're right there's loads of people who don't listen to that potatoey sort of music but there also were a fraction who did obviously

i get what you're saying in the second bit of this but that's not what i meant. not saying anything to do with race.

 

[shakahislop]

exactly, that's my point.
We do the same for rnb, rap, hardcore acid techno, gabba etc.

I was criticising shaka and kpunks defence of Dido back in the day, which shaka's defence of this seem to imply.

Subvert's explanation is simple, but the best. people just like the guitar bands of their youth.

i loved that mode of k punk's writing back in the day. i don't know what you'd call it. that was my way in. the first time i read the wire the first thing i read was an interview with tricky, which years later i realized was k punk. ended up being into all three of those things (k punk, wire, tricky). you're right to see that lineage there.

idk if i'd exactly go out to bat for oasis. hard to say much about them in terms of what they do for me, the second album was on in the car all the time growing up and the tunes were on the radio. not easy to get past that and there's not very much that's interesting to say about that experience. when i hear oasis now i am always surprised by how noisy and overdriven the guitars are. that seems like an exception in uk indie i think.

 

[version]

I refuse to believe that any Brit has ever liked or even listened to a nine inch nails song.

This was England's 'Closer'.

 

[shakahislop]

I dunno what my point is anymore, but uh... just wanna say that I don't hate Oasis, I just don't get the big deal for something that seems like a middle-of-the-road throwback with a modern makeover in the guitar sound.

Perhaps that's why no one wants to comment on that NIN track I posted as a comparison from something from an extremely popular album from the same year. I promise that people can admit it's something that actually deserves the tag "desperate" without getting mallgoth-industrial cooties.

in the US i think coz the mentality is so individualized shit circumstances lead to people turning inwards in violent self-loathing like in NiN. in the UK it's projected outwards to the environment a bit more. uk lends itself to lads singing to soaring anthems hands over each others shoulders spilling lager down your mate's back coz you can't get away with much navel-gazing or chatting about it anyway, the space for emotional catharsis is needed. letting it in. letting it out.

 

[shakahislop]

in terms of thinking about oasis - at risk of stating the totally obvious - it's a multiplicity isn't it. there's a thousand angles to come at it from and you need to approach the same thing from all of them to get an idea of the many things that are going on. oasis is a huge mass phenomenon involving millions of people over a thirty year period. you can't separate the CDs from the audience really, it's all part of the same thing. but anyway. one thing that's going on within this is that it's absolutely totally obvious that oasis tunes find some kind of emotional resonance in loads of people. and did in 1995. that's a description not a defence

 

[shakahislop]

given that there's absolutely nothing to fucking talk about with genres any more, that discussion has totally collapsed, and especially as the history of modern music gets longer - it's basically twice as long now as it was in the 1990s if you take 1960 as the starting point - i keep coming back to thinking about emotional continua rather than musical ones. they make a bit more sense if you're trying to understand the long run. different kinds of music plugging into the body and producing an affect

 

[0bleak]

It's weird that they don't seem to be near any of the top artists in terms of records sold, gross amount from tour, artists streamed.
They barely even made it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

Then again, it also seems weird to me that Nirvana isn't higher since I thought they were the reason everyone over here started dressing in flannel like lumberjacks one day.

 

[Corpsey]

I think they're a largely British phenomenon, dont think they ever "broke" America as they say

 

[Corpsey]

They seem to have saved the more sensitive songs for Noel to sing on b-sides generally.



This is one of my favourites, the Royle Family theme tune, basically a country song, the usual vague/nonsensical lyrics creeping in but a palpable sense of life-of-quiet-desperation to this. Dunno if Noel felt that when he wrote it but I'm sure it resonates with people who do feel that.

And this one is quite hippyish

 

[thirdform]

in terms of thinking about oasis - at risk of stating the totally obvious - it's a multiplicity isn't it. there's a thousand angles to come at it from and you need to approach the same thing from all of them to get an idea of the many things that are going on. oasis is a huge mass phenomenon involving millions of people over a thirty year period. you can't separate the CDs from the audience really, it's all part of the same thing. but anyway. one thing that's going on within this is that it's absolutely totally obvious that oasis tunes find some kind of emotional resonance in loads of people. and did in 1995. that's a description not a defence

could say the same for The Cranberries and the Corrs though.

I think Oasis's appeal precisely lies in the fact that they are a pastiche for people who can't or don't want to give up (by then exhausted) rock n roll rebellion.

 

[thirdform]

i loved that mode of k punk's writing back in the day. i don't know what you'd call it. that was my way in. the first time i read the wire the first thing i read was an interview with tricky, which years later i realized was k punk. ended up being into all three of those things (k punk, wire, tricky). you're right to see that lineage there.

A lot of his engagement with music and culture was an overpoliticisation of depression, I always felt. I understand the impulse but I do not think it's correct. This is probably why he resonated with a lot of people at the time. putting into words the despair they felt. But the thing with that is the more you politicise an aesthetic of depression, the more sharper and livelier it becomes, the less you are able to understand anything outside of it, and in that respect, politics proper.

 

[version]

"... in the ’90s there was a clear distinction between this emergent disavowed retro culture via Blur and Oasis – the pseudo opposition between Blur and Oasis that was more sort of a battle between mediocre class stereotypes. Students slumming it, as Ian Penman put it about Blur, versus this utter neanderthal cartoon of the working class, as if they were the only options available. But actually at the time the real opposition was between things like that and things like Tricky, jungle and various iterations of techno. There was an absolute plethora of alternatives to that disavowed retro culture of the ’90s. But it started to become clear to me then, that in 1995 the ’60s had been a lot closer than they were in 1980. I mean Oasis could have existed in 1980 more or less, but they would have been like fourth on the bill in a small pub. There just wasn’t that level of tolerance for ’60s throwbacks at that time. There was a sense of historical narrative and a sense of time having moved on. But time since the ’90s has got increasingly flattened out, such that exactly that kind of phenomenon can happen."

Do you miss the future? Mark Fisher interviewed | Crack Magazine

No future: Mark Fisher expounds on our capitalist reality

crackmagazine.net

 

[0bleak]

That Mark Fisher bit is similar to the way I felt about Grunge here at the time - why are we moving backwards? This is 1991. The future is here!
I thought that some of the grunge stuff might as well have been country music, but with a different guitar sound and of course the quiet/loud aesthetic.

Unfortunately, I was also unfairly dismissive of MBV at the same time, but I finally started appreciating them after circling back and realizing they had more to offer sonically for my ears.

 

[shakahislop]

could say the same for The Cranberries and the Corrs though.

I think Oasis's appeal precisely lies in the fact that they are a pastiche for people who can't or don't want to give up (by then exhausted) rock n roll rebellion.

yeah agree with you and version. it's part of the soup. these trails of the mid-20th century living on. the last gasp before those ideas wilted. the only people who have somehow preserved it as well. that's what the mediatized bit of the reunion reminds me of. something buried being dug up and reopened.

 

[shakahislop]

pete doherty is like a satire of the rock and roll ideal written by an unkind and remorseless playwright

 

[0bleak]

That Mark Fisher bit is similar to the way I felt about Grunge here at the time - why are we moving backwards? This is 1991. The future is here!
I thought that some of the grunge stuff might as well have been country music, but with a different guitar sound and of course the quiet/loud aesthetic.

Unfortunately, I was also unfairly dismissive of MBV at the same time, but I finally started appreciating them after circling back and realizing they had more to offer sonically for my ears.

grunge - pfft! Music for huge space arenas cannot exist on the same planet, damn it!

 

[...]

Was that sort of 60s revival in the 90s in rock music preceded by/induced somehow by rave music?

Or was it that generational thing people have talked about where the youngsters of the 60s were now in charge of labels/radio stations etc

The Boomers took over the commanding heights of the media in the 90s so it was awash with nostalgia for the 60s. The spectre of the 60s haunted the 90s.

I think that's receeded now. Gen Xers now fill the positions the Boomers did and so the 80s have taken the place of the 60s in the collective imagination.