PDA

View Full Version : Sa-Ra "Second Time Around"



Woebot
03-11-2005, 08:13 AM
Double 12" business. The most attractive piece of vinyl I've come across in ages.

The title track is one of the best things I've heard in ages. The term "fat " is overused, but this literally wobbles right out the speakers with alarming physicality. The most truly solid piece of music I think I've heard since Zapp's "More Bounce to the Ounce". The tunings are all warped and smeared and I reckon it can lay claim to making a nonsense of the distinction between HipHop and R'n"B by merits of the overpowering individuality and strngth of the sonix.

i was a fan of their earlier birds tune which was on a devo/prince new-wave funk tip via nona hendryx's "skin diver" and the francois k remix of ashford and simpson's "babies" - but this one is totally unique.

gumdrops
03-11-2005, 10:33 AM
check out death of a star, downtown, hollywood, bitch, double dutch, sa-ra space theme (if you havent already).... i reckon those are their best tracks.

DJ PIMP
03-11-2005, 07:58 PM
Yeah, its lovely...

Really into their 'dark matter and pornography' mix.

spotrusha
03-11-2005, 11:28 PM
this is a great double pack. the instr. sounds great with with that 50 "outta control" acapella over it. that's how i'm playin it out.

Woebot
04-11-2005, 08:31 AM
check out death of a star, downtown, hollywood, bitch, double dutch, sa-ra space theme (if you havent already).... i reckon those are their best tracks.

thanks gumdrops. theres one high-profile one, may be the sa-ra theme, which i heard and didnt rate....

gumdrops
04-11-2005, 08:59 AM
butterscotch (kinda kraftwerky) is another good one... i dont know the titles to a lot of their stuff cos its only on cd-r but i think thats the name. if youre not familiar with the producer jay-dee/jay-dilla, he's where sa-ra ahem, borrow quite a lot of their drum programming ideas from (particularly on their more downtempo tracks)

spotrusha
04-11-2005, 04:24 PM
haha co-siggety on the jay-dee point

mms
04-11-2005, 06:07 PM
butterscotch (kinda kraftwerky) is another good one... i dont know the titles to a lot of their stuff cos its only on cd-r but i think thats the name. if youre not familiar with the producer jay-dee/jay-dilla, he's where sa-ra ahem, borrow quite a lot of their drum programming ideas from (particularly on their more downtempo tracks)

he is the best - fat sub bass tracks with abstract shape throwing samples - it's a detroit thing i'm sure you can hear it running thru theo parrish too
j ay dees playing in jazz cafe soon too

some one gave me a cd of something like 28 instrumentals i can listen to it all day

Ness Rowlah
05-11-2005, 12:55 AM
never heard of Sa-Ra until now, but there's a free legal download of
"Second Time Around" at download.com -
http://music.download.com/sa_ra/3600-8544_32-100808056.html

--

It is great, hints of the late Billy MacKenzie/The Associates as well
- the echo, the way the second vocalist comes in just after "the second time around"
(or is it the same one? in which case it makes it even more Associates-like).
Sa-Ra might never have heard of Billy though.

dubplatestyle
06-11-2005, 01:00 AM
"glorious" is their best tune, i think. one of the best things i've heard this year at any rate. like the more minimal moments on the d'angelo albums crossed with the better n.e.r.d. stuff. (there's something about it that reminds me, weirdly, of ar kane too.)

i like a lot of the stuff in this orbit; a lot of it skirts stuff i would say i was suspicious of if asked in public. (but maybe more of my mother's influence is cropping up in my listening habits as i get older.) it does slightly trouble me however that the best collection of it as a whole that i've come across is a dj language mix put together as a promotional tool for nike. so much for that neo-soul purity.

i was initially put off by how "undeveloped" a lot of their work (and their contemporaries work) felt as tunes/songs. i still don't think they really work that way (that's weed as part of the creative process for you), but i've gotten over it by realizing that this is, essentially, trip-hop (finally?) made by african-americans. (don't run away, matt.) it'll be interesting to see if anything comes of them being signed to kanye's vanity label. i can't really see them burning up the us rnb charts.

gumdrops
06-11-2005, 08:10 PM
spacek might not be american but as far as a post-trip-hop combo operating in modern R&B/soul, they definitely fit the mould. theyre another group who sa-ra really make me think of.

Woebot
07-11-2005, 08:17 AM
that this is, essentially, trip-hop (finally?) made by african-americans. (don't run away, matt.)

certainly its all about the texture.

Diggedy Derek
07-11-2005, 09:02 AM
Their production on Dwight Trible's recent album Love Is The Answer is raely excellent. Better than his singing.

dHarry
07-11-2005, 11:26 AM
"Second Time Around" dl'ed - I'm hearing El-P's Cannibal Oxtrumentals with a Bootsy Collins/Prince vocal and maybe a hint of Herbert, as well as the afore-mentioned Billy McKensie/AR Kane, though I'm not hearing the trip hop at all... deliriously ramshackle, barely hanging together, deliciously in/out of time.

jd_
09-11-2005, 04:46 PM
Hollywood's amazing. I haven't heard this release though.

Buick6
01-01-2006, 03:04 PM
SOme nice grooves going on here. Nice call who ever did it first? Reminds me a bit of that WordSound stuff from a few years back, but better. And love the name, is it a typo on SunRa? Do you pronounce it 'sah-rah', sarrah, or 'Say Ray'?

Is this sound 'crunk'? Is Edan 'crunk'?

Woebot
02-01-2006, 07:50 AM
SOme nice grooves going on here. Nice call who ever did it first? Reminds me a bit of that WordSound stuff from a few years back, but better. And love the name, is it a typo on SunRa? Do you pronounce it 'sah-rah', sarrah, or 'Say Ray'?

Is this sound 'crunk'? Is Edan 'crunk'?

it's sah-rah (as far as i can fathom)

this isnt crunk:

sa-ra: nearest approximation psychedelic new soul
edan: back-pack "undie"
lil jon++++++: crunk

Buick6
02-01-2006, 02:46 PM
it's sah-rah (as far as i can fathom)


edan: back-pack "undie"


Wot, even the track 'rock n' roll'?

Maybe undie backpackers are good these days?

gumdrops
02-01-2006, 02:53 PM
there is NOTHING 'crunk' about what edan does. he actively hates crunk as far as im aware.

mms
02-01-2006, 03:20 PM
you heard koushik be with on stones throw ?
you might like it. its kind of sixities ish psychedelia mixed up with hip hop, sounds better than that description.i i've got this sa-ra on order right now,looking forward to it, i enjoyed their mixes of dwight tribble.

jay dilla's got a new one out soon, he's very very ill with kidney problems and has a poor life expectancy, i think he needs a replacement kidney. this is very sad.

Buick6
02-01-2006, 11:04 PM
Undie hiphop is possibly the worst music in the universe - especially this terrible stuff called 'Ozzie HipHop'. I mean Vanilla Ice at least had more interesting 'samples' that the BS post-RZA crap undie goes for but Edan has some nice beats and ideas going down.

I might hafta check this crunk stuff out.

michael
02-01-2006, 11:35 PM
Yeah, I've got this on order too... then of course stumbled upon it on a listening post at a huge HMV here, looking nice and cheap and no doubt with extra Japanese-only tracks and shit. *sigh* Ah well, shouldn't be spending money and was using a gift voucher I got given, so that's all good.

Bla bla, all I wanted to say was I'm really looking forward to it. Like dubplatestyle I really like a lot of the stuff sneaking around this territory, but am also really suspicious of some of it... The other thing I got on order is the Steve Spacek solo (with some J Dilla beats, actually), but then I soulseeked that a while back.

This German net label Tokyo Dawn Records have released free stuff by a guy called Comfort Fit that has some Dilla swagger from time to time. The best, BEST stuff I've ever heard on a net label was also on that site, another Detroit crew (I think) called Blaktroniks, an EP called 'p2p pressure'. Sooo worth going and downloading it.

Ness Rowlah
03-01-2006, 01:23 AM
So how far is Sa-Ra from what they call "nu-soul"?
I mean Spacek is nu-soul is it not? That's what I would call it - and the Wikipedia (as good as any resource on this matter?) says


Neo soul (also known as nu soul) is a musical genre that fuses contemporary R&B, 1970s style soul, and hip hop.
Lost in the genre-maze ... Not that it matters - it's good (the music, not being lost in a maze).

michael
03-01-2006, 02:26 AM
I did this track that has a bit of the shtumble going after getting pretty obsessed with stuff like Tribe called Quest's 'The Love Movement' and the first few Spacek singles. Would love some opinions from this hyper-critical crowd. It's one of my favourite things I've done, I should warn you, but I'll try not to be defensive.

http://www.nonwrestler.com/demo/04-awry_smile.mp3

Sorry if this is an uncool use of les forums.

joeschmo
03-01-2006, 03:46 AM
It is quite amusing to me that various big-name bloggers who would normally be virulently opposed to this kind of thing have for who knows what reasons decided to approve this... it's nice enough--I like this kind of thing fine, myself--but what exactly separates it from Jay Dee especially--who could have done any of these basslines, and in fact probably out-wobbled them on stuff like his Madlib collaboration--or even broken beat, is not really clear... anyway, to my ears, the weak link is the vocals....

gumdrops
03-01-2006, 10:30 AM
the first post i ever made on dissensus was about sa-ra. dont think ive changed my mind on them since, especially as they insist on releasing more stuff that sounds like the energy-devoid sub-dilla stuff that goes nowhere rather than more tracks like like 'shimmy shimmy' or 'frequencies'. agreed - they could definitely do with someone else singing their own material (bilal would be my pick). theyre not completely terrible vocalists but theyre only a few notches above pharrell IMHO. they sound vaguely camp, actually.


It is quite amusing to me that various big-name bloggers who would normally be virulently opposed to this kind of thing have for who knows what reasons decided to approve this....

well, this might be the one time the straight no chaser crowd and non-gilles peterson listening hipsters agree on something.

mms
03-01-2006, 07:29 PM
Yeah, I've got this on order too... then of course stumbled upon it on a listening post at a huge HMV here, looking nice and cheap and no doubt with extra Japanese-only tracks and shit. *sigh* Ah well, shouldn't be spending money and was using a gift voucher I got given, so that's all good.

Bla bla, all I wanted to say was I'm really looking forward to it. Like dubplatestyle I really like a lot of the stuff sneaking around this territory, but am also really suspicious of some of it... The other thing I got on order is the Steve Spacek solo (with some J Dilla beats, actually), but then I soulseeked that a while back.

This German net label Tokyo Dawn Records have released free stuff by a guy called Comfort Fit that has some Dilla swagger from time to time. The best, BEST stuff I've ever heard on a net label was also on that site, another Detroit crew (I think) called Blaktroniks, an EP called 'p2p pressure'. Sooo worth going and downloading it.

the steve spacek is nice - he's got a good voice

does anyone know the hypnotec records - ur's electronic hip hop offshoot - some of those records are good ina jay dee stylee

Buick6
03-01-2006, 10:59 PM
I did this track that has a bit of the shtumble going after getting pretty obsessed with stuff like Tribe called Quest's 'The Love Movement' and the first few Spacek singles. Would love some opinions from this hyper-critical crowd. It's one of my favourite things I've done, I should warn you, but I'll try not to be defensive.

http://www.nonwrestler.com/demo/04-awry_smile.mp3

Sorry if this is an uncool use of les forums.

Is that a track you produced? Was that with Ableton? Yeah, nice stuff, sounds like the Sneaker Pimps meets all that Luomo body-w/o organs sex-life-of-a-robot sorta stuff, or alot of that Austrian post-trip hop stuff from the mid-late 90s (I forget the labels).

michael
04-01-2006, 04:56 AM
Ah thanks - well, except I actively despise Sneaker Pimps! I find a lot of downbeat stuff really tedious, but I know I basically fit the mould 100%. Haha.. nah, it's all good, thanks for commenting.

I made the track with an old Emu sampler and an early 90s sequencer called Master Tracks Pro.

dominic
05-01-2006, 07:45 PM
in a similar vein =

tate's place, "burnin" -- which i play pitched up to 45 rpm

dominic
09-01-2006, 05:36 PM
and raw fusion is also in this mode, methinks, at least to a degree

ANYWAY -- can't say that i've picked up the sa-ra stuff yet -- HOWEVER, they're playing the canal room THIS WEDNESDAY, january 11th -- take the stage at 10 pm -- i figure i'll check it out, so that i can have an opinion about them

and it's pronounced "sah-rah"

dominic
09-01-2006, 06:32 PM
and jazzanova play cielo this sunday, january 15th -- i mention this only b/c we're kinda on the subject

Buick6
09-01-2006, 10:10 PM
This SA-Ra is top stuff. Uber-chic hipster cred funk for 2006.

sounds like bits of SunRa keys noodling, P-Funk and OutKast...but better, more edgier..

DavidD
10-01-2006, 12:48 AM
I can understand why indie rap these days has a bad, er, rap. But there's so much great later-90s underground/indie stuff....I think lambasting it as a genre is totally unfair.

Buick6
10-01-2006, 02:03 AM
I can understand why indie rap these days has a bad, er, rap. But there's so much great later-90s underground/indie stuff....I think lambasting it as a genre is totally unfair.

If it's shit, it's shit. And most people don't have the time to discover everything. That's up to the critics, radio programmers and trainspotters, 'Star Trumpers'.

Woebot
10-01-2006, 08:57 AM
It is quite amusing to me that various big-name bloggers who would normally be virulently opposed to this kind of thing have for who knows what reasons decided to approve this...

big name bloggers! is that some sort of cartel? i've gotta hand it to you, whoever they are, you've certainly got tabs on them :)


it's nice enough--I like this kind of thing fine, myself--but what exactly separates it from Jay Dee especially--who could have done any of these basslines, and in fact probably out-wobbled them on stuff like his Madlib collaboration--or even broken beat, is not really clear... anyway, to my ears, the weak link is the vocals....

what separates it from jay dee? this seems to re-occur alot, i've subsequently taken the time to check out welcome 2 detroit (with the slum village on its way), and it's fabulous, though the slightly proggy curdled 80s revisonism which i hear in sa-ra is almost entirely absent. the dilla is cold and crisp, precisely what one would imagine detroit hip-hop to sound like.

the vocals (which neither you or gumdrops seem to like) are another reason why they're extremely interesting. i've never been much of a fan of the vocal preformance, of "quality vocals" (see Shirley Bassey) and the slightly homespun, rough-edged quality of the sa-ra voices is to me really dreamy. perhaps that clears up some of the confusion as to why i like it, even if we're yet to understand its appeal to "the big name bloggers" ;)

dHarry
10-01-2006, 09:47 AM
the vocals (which neither you or gumdrops seem to like) are another reason why they're extremely interesting. i've never been much of a fan of the vocal preformance, of "quality vocals" (see Shirley Bassey) and the slightly homespun, rough-edged quality of the sa-ra voices is to me really dreamy.

The vocals on Second Time Around to me sound like 80's Bootsy Collins, circa "I'd Rather Be With You" (from which Outkast bite the same style, say on Roses), totally derivative. Not bad for all that, but I don't hear "homespun, rough-edged, dreamy", just them copping a specific reference point in soul/funk cultural history. The music I find far more interesting and texturally luscious. But then I'm not a big-name blogger, what do I know?! ;)

gumdrops
10-01-2006, 10:50 AM
co-sign with dharry.

im not after 'professional' or typically 'good' vocals which forsake individuality or their 'rough homespun' qualities (which is usually used as an excuse for shoddiness IMHO) but some sort of vocal ability where it doesnt sound lile their lungs are going to give way or performances where theyre not seemingly on the verge of laughing out loud would be nice. plus, their vocals are just far too 'cool' that the emotion given off is borderline flat. all that said, it does work for some of their songs but they still sound terrible on that new single they did with pharoahe monch.

mms
10-01-2006, 07:39 PM
that whole ubiquity label that they are mean't to release their album on is an interesting one - kinda broken beat and jazzy techno, john beltran, kirk degiorgio and roy davis junior are on it, gilles peterson repped etc, it's a us label, stuff is massive with the xlr8 crowd big crossovers feat dudes like victor duplaix and king britt,
i didn't know they were part of that scene before i looked at their site..

i wonder if they will ever be as big as they are hyping themselves to be, they are a wee bit too smooth in places.

the j dee new album donuts is very much different from previous things, it's almost frantic with not one track over 2 mins and all staplled together, not many vocals going on, i've listened to it once so far and it was quite a shock. :eek:

DavidD
10-01-2006, 07:47 PM
If it's shit, it's shit.
...and I'm saying it's not all shit.

And most people don't have the time to discover everything. That's up to the critics, radio programmers and trainspotters, 'Star Trumpers'.
What is yr point? Most of the people on dissensus have some degree of familiarity with obscure music. I'm saying that I don't think indie rap, particularly the shit that came out in the late 90s, is deserving of all the bile it recieves.

Buick6
11-01-2006, 01:20 AM
...and I'm saying it's not all shit.

What is yr point? Most of the people on dissensus have some degree of familiarity with obscure music. I'm saying that I don't think indie rap, particularly the shit that came out in the late 90s, is deserving of all the bile it recieves.

OK..INDIE RAP...My Opinion:

Problems: Boring rappers, unmaginative lyrical flow, all of it sounding like some sort of 'jazzy down beat vibe', especially amongst white-boy rappers, whose lyrical inflections/subtleties aren't being utilized as well as their black brothers.

Sonically: Duller than deadshit. Most haven't progressed musically beyond that sort trip-hop/downbeat sonique OR they all just go for that RZA Weird-loop style with the same fucken plodding beat.

And interesting thing is where to the Beastie Boys fit into the whole equation, though they have been completely irrelevant to me personally since 'check yr Head', which they've basically dead-horse-flogged ever since....

A BIG problem with the indie HIPHOPPERS/RAPPERS etc is their inability to take cues from techno/electronica/house (on top of other 'roots' or 'standard'styles soul/r'nb/funk/rock/reggae) to emebelish their sounds, something which the more MAINSTREAM rappers/R&B producers have done to remarkable effect, say no more.

So IMHO until they broaden their horizons and sonic skills indie(undie) hiphop just doesn't cut it to me on the whole, but every now an again someone like Edan my tweak my interest. Is that clear enuff for you???

Woebot
11-01-2006, 08:11 AM
(which is usually used as an excuse for shoddiness IMHO)

it might be that we're coming from different perspectives. most of the great vocalists in "rock" sound like hoarse dogs. almost none of them (bar scott walker) have what you'd recognise as conventionally "good vocals". it's all about the collision of ambition with the paucity of available resources. thats what creates an interesting tension.

anyway, just you see, by the time they get to release an LP it'll be guest spots ahoy, you'll get your qwality vocals with beyonce over their "sub-dilla" beats- and then there really will be nothing to write home about......

gumdrops
11-01-2006, 09:30 AM
it might be that we're coming from different perspectives. most of the great vocalists in "rock" sound like hoarse dogs. almost none of them (bar scott walker) have what you'd recognise as conventionally "good vocals". it's all about the collision of ambition with the paucity of available resources. thats what creates an interesting tension.

theres plenty of rock singers i like so its not like i listen to ariel pink or TVOTR or whoever and go into soul snobbery mode. 'oh theyre just absolutely awful! these songs would be so much better if destinys child were singing them!' but it might just be that i expect different things from soul/R&B - although the insistence in R&B on absolutely perfect-cum-sterile vocals (particularly in the 'wet' way theyre recorded) turns me off as well. as i said upthread, theres songs where i think sa-ra's voices work well with the material (shimmy shimmy, bitch, frequencies, etc) but on the slower songs where theres more pressure on them to hold a note (like hollywood) it literally sounds like their lungs are sometimes going to give way. i prefer them to pharrell in any case (but even then, i absolutely love the first NERD album)


anyway, just you see, by the time they get to release an LP it'll be guest spots ahoy, you'll get your qwality vocals with beyonce over their "sub-dilla" beats- and then there really will be nothing to write home about......

ha - i dont want guest spots. i think they should be banned except in very special circumstances.

im sending you their cd tomorrow by the way, see what you make of it.

gumdrops
11-01-2006, 10:14 AM
[QUOTE=WOEBOT]it might be that we're coming from different perspectives. most of the great vocalists in "rock" sound like hoarse dogs. almost none of them (bar scott walker) have what you'd recognise as conventionally "good vocals". it's all about the collision of ambition with the paucity of available resources. thats what creates an interesting tension.
[QUOTE]

hmmm. iggy pop and john lydon dont have conventionally 'good vocals/voices' but they seem to know their strengths and know how to exploit them really well. they can at least hold a note (which is more than i can say for pharrell) and bring a real commitment/passion to their vocals.

theres plenty of singers in rock i consider to have good voices though - bowie (just listen to wild is the wind), the beatles, colin blunstone from the zombies, van morrison.... but okay, they might not be the norm as such if the norm is the likes of mick jagger, ozzy osbourne, robert plant et al.

Woebot
11-01-2006, 10:46 AM
im sending you their cd tomorrow by the way, see what you make of it.

thanks mate.

Tactics
11-01-2006, 12:23 PM
but im back breathing Dissensus air - feels good lol....

don't really know what to add except Sa-Ra are big. People should check a track they did for DJ Mitsu called 'Negative Ion' - my boy BW hit me up with it - now I ain't never heard nothing like that before and I've heard quite a bit. Shame about the cancelled Jazz Cafe gig.

joeschmo
11-01-2006, 01:09 PM
<i>big name bloggers! is that some sort of cartel?</i>

definitely. you all meet in switzerland to confirm aesthetic preferences and plot global music blog domination

<i>what separates it from jay dee?</i>

the cosmic vibes. it's the basslines that are similar. i think jay dee probably does better blines, some of his are just ridiculous, so sub-sub-sub and he really gets them to vibrate. i'm not a jay dee expert but you should check the Jaylib stuff, that seemed like his peak in those terms to me.

the thing about jay dee is he doesn't really finish a lot of his stuff. it'll have an amazing beat and then the rapping is lame, or whatever. sa-ra seem to put whole tracks together better.

i have to say i find sa-ra's vocals a bit smug sounding, but i should probably listen to them more before i spout off any more.

and don't take beyonce's name in vain. been listening to the destiny's greatest hits a lot lately and that is a serious body of work. pisses all over these guys from a great height, as certain big-name bloggers would say. "quality vocals" has nothing to do with it.

mms
11-01-2006, 09:28 PM
they signed to kanye wests label

DavidD
12-01-2006, 01:59 AM
OK..INDIE RAP...My Opinion:

Problems: Boring rappers, unmaginative lyrical flow, all of it sounding like some sort of 'jazzy down beat vibe', especially amongst white-boy rappers, whose lyrical inflections/subtleties aren't being utilized as well as their black brothers.

Sonically: Duller than deadshit. Most haven't progressed musically beyond that sort trip-hop/downbeat sonique OR they all just go for that RZA Weird-loop style with the same fucken plodding beat.

And interesting thing is where to the Beastie Boys fit into the whole equation, though they have been completely irrelevant to me personally since 'check yr Head', which they've basically dead-horse-flogged ever since....

A BIG problem with the indie HIPHOPPERS/RAPPERS etc is their inability to take cues from techno/electronica/house (on top of other 'roots' or 'standard'styles soul/r'nb/funk/rock/reggae) to emebelish their sounds, something which the more MAINSTREAM rappers/R&B producers have done to remarkable effect, say no more.

So IMHO until they broaden their horizons and sonic skills indie(undie) hiphop just doesn't cut it to me on the whole, but every now an again someone like Edan my tweak my interest. Is that clear enuff for you???

Dude I've read ILM archives, I've been on Dissensus awhile, I've heard it all before. This is hardly a shocking pov to me at this point. Its just gotten where I've realized I don't really care about a producer taking his cues from techno/electronica/house. And many producers a lot of folks on the inernets think were taking cues from eurodance WEREN'T, they were moving from the miami bass/NO bounce axis. I'm totally interested in hearing lots of new sounds enter hip-hop. But to me, how INTERESTING it is doesn't correlate to how much it sounds like old rave music. For instance, my favorite rapper right now is T.I. and he's at his best when he's working with a pretty standard-sounding drums-bass-guitar-organ minimal production combo. Young Jeezy's record is like the most street album this year and its not taking any cues from rave music, really. I know there was this whole Timbo/Neptunes thing, and I'm a huge fan of both of their beats but I don't see it as the be-all and end-all of what can be done with rap.

In the late 90s there were a lot of dudes who wanted to work outside of the street aesthetic and they made a space for it. I don't mean anticon, who I always thought were pretty wanky, or really white-boy shit at all per se. I'm copy+pasting something my friend Sergio wrote a while back about underground in the late 90s:


with the indie movement you had the rise of ny underground pumping out 12"s. Back then you could go to sandbox and their list of new 12"s was 3 times longer than the cds. Yeah there was rawkus but there were so many others doing dope stuff. necro and non phixions' best records came out during that period. Then there was fondle'em with the cenobites, that first arsonists joint, mf grimm, siah and yeshua, brooklyn academy which was largely represented by thirstin howl, raw shack comes out with j-live, the east flatbush record, natural resource and more. In the la you had the rise of all those kids raised at the good life. Acey was dropping shit, cve had a whole bunch of shit coming out, 2mex, awolone, and the shapeshifters were doing all kinds of weird shit with their music. That beneath the surface comp that reps that late 90's LA scene very well. There was nothing out there like farmers market of the beast. In the bay you had the legends and solesides putting out stuff. That early living legends shit before their asr10's got boring as fuck. When cd burners became affordable the scene just exploded. All kinds of kids who never would have been able to release were putting out cds.

There's plenty of shitty underground backpacker rap but just because it doesnt have novation synths doesnt mean its not new or unique or interesting. I mean, KANYE for christsake. But yeah, late 90s had some great underground shit.

(Not to suggest that it was musically competing with the late 90s mainstream, where you had the rise of Trick Daddy/Trina Miami shit, Puff Daddy's neo-disco pop rap, Swizz Beats' lo-fi casio hardcore with Ruff Ryders, DMX, Lox etc., Cash Money's NO Bounce courtesy Mannie, No Limit's Beats-by-the-pound KLC and Mo B Dick piano-g-funk, Hypnotized Minds in Memphis, Suavehouse's rhodes-n-guitars, Dre's comeback, rise of Timbaland, arrival of Lil Jon and Neptunes, etc.)

But what I am suggesting is that the 'it just sounds like trip-hop' thing is cutting short the contributions a bunch of folks were making at the time.

(Ethan Padgett made a post on ILM where he argued that there's a bunch of good underground/indie stuff now. I haven't noticed any big uplift, but I still liked Madvillain last year).

dominic
12-01-2006, 09:12 AM
so i waltzed on up to the doorman and said, "i'm on the list"

had weaseled my way onto the giant step list

the doorman then replied, "sony list is this line, all other lists are over there in that line"

it then became apparent that everyone standing outside was on some kind of list

or else they had paid good money for advance tickets

and then i learned that it was hip hop "industry" night at the canal room

despite the rain, a large mob of people stood outside waiting

and waiting

and waiting

and waiting to get in

eventually my friend showed up

and we left

didn't get in

not that i shed any tears, as i had gone there as a curiosity-seeker, a trend-spotter, moved solely by the force of woebot's recommendation

so perhaps i got my just come-uppance

i just feel bad for all the others who didn't get in

gumdrops
22-03-2007, 11:10 AM
i thought they had split up but they have a new album out next month called black fuzz which is meant to feature erykah badu, bilal (who i love), and georgia anne muldrow.... theyre saying its not a real album, which is a bit annoying as theyve released enough non-albums already, but its meant to be a lead up to the 'real' album proper later in the year which i think is still meant to be on kanyes label. fingers crossed both will be good.

crackerjack
22-03-2007, 11:21 AM
i thought they had split up but they have a new album out next month called black fuzz which is meant to feature erykah badu, bilal (who i love), and georgia anne muldrow.... theyre saying its not a real album, which is a bit annoying as theyve released enough non-albums already, but its meant to be a lead up to the 'real' album proper later in the year which i think is still meant to be on kanyes label. fingers crossed both will be good.

Any idea if anyone is pr-ing this?

gumdrops
22-03-2007, 11:40 AM
actually, i got it mixed up, its called the hollywood recordings. no idea whos doing the PR for it though.

from scratchmagazine -

It was reported in October of last year that G.O.O.D. Music’s production trio Sa-Ra Creative Partners had split up. Well, according to Babygrande Records, the original trio is once again back together and about to release an album called The Hollywood Recordings. But don’t get it twisted: this isn’t their debut album. Oh, no. According to Babygrande, this album is just “the prequel to their forthcoming major label album debut.”

Seeing as Sony Urban (their previous label) doesn’t exist anymore, we’re not sure where or how this subsequent real major label debut will actually ever be released. Nonetheless, we’re happy to get a retail release from the trio, even if it as a faux-”prequel” album on Babygrande.

Still, wouldn’t it be doper if artists in general stopped pussyfooting around, waiting for a major label to put muscle behind their projects? Instead putting out half-assed “mixtape albums”, “street albums” and “prequel albums,” what if these artists actually put their full focus and talent behind these independent releases? We might actually have a dope Saigon album by now!

It’s time artists accept that the music business has changed and that they can stop being insecure about being on an independent label. Not every artist is going to get a million dollar budget from Interscope.

Woebot
22-03-2007, 01:13 PM
gawd! eventually. and i second your remarks gumdrops. sa-ra are preposterously obsessed with their own worth.

crackerjack
22-03-2007, 01:29 PM
gawd! eventually. and i second your remarks gumdrops. sa-ra are preposterously obsessed with their own worth.

I think he was quoting from Scratch, but either way, I agree. If you're signed to a major and it hasn't happened within 18-24 months, then gtf outta dodge. Those are your prime years you're sitting out.

gumdrops
22-03-2007, 03:14 PM
sa-ra are preposterously obsessed with their own worth.

theyre just truly gifted shit talkers. they have a rapper's bravado. its their hustling attitude thats let them generate so much hype. shame they dont have enough to back it up yet imo...

Tactics
22-03-2007, 03:32 PM
theyre just truly gifted shit talkers. they have a rapper's bravado. its their hustling attitude thats let them generate so much hype. shame they dont have enough to back it up yet imo...

name me some non-albums they've put out? not maxi singles or E.P's but non-albums? they haven't put out any....only over expensive vinyl E.P's and maxi singles...if this is s*** left over from their debut or stuff there not allowed to record being in contract...then I guess they have to call it a non-album

if the music's good, as always, they'll be complete silence...lol...and that's all that really matters...really lol

gumdrops
22-03-2007, 03:36 PM
Eps, non albums, whatever, its all the same. i doubt all that early stuff (the 'demos') got leaked by accident. they knew what they were doing. the point is theyve released a lot of bits here and there and its all been of varying quality. i cant say anything theyve released has been stunning from start to end, the EPs have always had tracks that werent that great, or an instrumental they could knock out in their sleep. its fine, i still sift through it all for tracks like downtown or death of a star, but for a group so obsessed with their own hype and importance and apparent genius (that theyve been sitting on for what is now years), there hasnt been enough to substantiate it.

Tactics
22-03-2007, 03:41 PM
sounds like they've been in typical label hell under slightly binding contracts...it happens

as for boasting...the s*** I've heard from them is more than worthy of the hype though I think they could make more p if they just produced and did BV's on their tracks for pop stars...cash in on the image and sell, sell, sell...! lol

I've never been able to get a hold of these 'intentionally' leaked tracks though - can anyone hook a brotha up?

gumdrops
22-03-2007, 03:47 PM
sounds like they've been in typical label hell under slightly binding contracts...it happens

as for boasting...the s*** I've heard from them is more than worthy of the hype though I think they could make more p if they just produced and did BV's on their tracks for pop stars...cash in on the image and sell, sell, sell...! lol

I've never been able to get a hold of these 'intentionally' leaked tracks though - can anyone hook a brotha up?

but theyve been producing for other artists for years - maybe theyve just been giving heavy d, pharoahe monch, goapele and everyone else their leftovers and saving it either for themselves or for the a-listers, but none of it has been that inspired. its all been a bit hit and miss. i think theyre somewhere between incredibly overrated by their boosters and underrated by well, the rest of the world. but fair enough, theyve been shafted by sony and kanyes label and industry politics. i dont think their time 'has passed' or anything. its actually probably better they didnt release anything during the hype period. now people can judge it fairly. i just hope it lives up to the hype. cos people have been waiting for them to come with something proper for ages now.

Tactics
22-03-2007, 03:56 PM
its actually probably better they didnt release anything during the hype period. now people can judge it fairly. i just hope it lives up to the hype. cos people have been waiting for them to come with something proper for ages now.

and it better be something...otherwise even staunch supporters like me are...OFF lol!

gumdrops
22-03-2007, 03:58 PM
did you hear bilals version of hollywood? i love it. bilal gave it a kind of vulnerability or frailness or something that wasnt in the original (i like the original too but i just hear smarmy gits when i hear the sa ra version lol)

Tactics
22-03-2007, 04:06 PM
where are ppl hearing all this material? maybe I need to finally re-install a p2p

*slaps self*

no I haven't heard that lol...

reading this thread from page 1 makes me wanna shed a couple of tears...mentioning Dilla and all that

gumdrops
22-03-2007, 04:08 PM
here you go -
http://www.sendspace.com/file/bj4gjn

michael
22-03-2007, 11:22 PM
Played out that Fish Fillet tune with Pharaohe Monch the other night and it sounded great over a big(ger than my stereo) system.

In general I don't get the buzz much, but I did pick up this EP/single/whatever when I saw it on sale and I'm at least interested to hear how the album goes. I only really like one track each from Bilal, Erykah Badu, so not too excited.

Tactics
03-05-2007, 12:10 PM
the hollywood recordings is out! finally an album...

from what I heard on when they were streaming the whole thing on myspace...its standardly sick

any thoughts?

www.myspace.com/saracreativepartners (the VERY odd video is up there aswell)

tate
03-05-2007, 12:40 PM
the hollywood recordings is out! finally an album...
Excellent news! Thx for the update, Tactics, this made my day.

spotrusha
03-05-2007, 12:43 PM
i love these guys' slower production, but when they get into the faster and sassy stuff, i honestly get creeped out by it. sorry, i'm not into a 92 polo stadium yves saint laurent vintage gucci burberry print benetton-clad dude with a gumby whispering about licking toes in a phantom or whatever.

gumdrops
03-05-2007, 12:49 PM
a 92 polo stadium yves saint laurent vintage gucci burberry print benetton-clad dude with a gumby whispering about licking toes in a phantom or whatever.

this is what their best stuff is about though. theyre a bunch of poseurs. i just wish they were more at ease with their poseurdom rather than trying to pass themselves off as earnest.

Woebot
04-05-2007, 06:39 AM
yay.

Tactics
05-03-2008, 11:48 AM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SA-RA-Sonic-Seduction-Part-1-EP-Jazzy-Sport-JSV-024_W0QQitemZ370025901977QQihZ024QQcategoryZ58651Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQ cmdZViewItem

its a bit old but considering the only time I've ever tried to cop a copy it's like...£25...this is alright

bless

gumdrops
08-03-2008, 11:24 AM
totally lost interest in these guys as solo artists. would much prefer if they STFU and just stuck to producing like on the new erykah album. they sound like they love themselves way too much whenever they rap or sing.