Sa-Ra "Second Time Around"

[Buick6]

Undie hiphop is possibly the worst music in the universe - especially this terrible stuff called 'Ozzie HipHop'. I mean Vanilla Ice at least had more interesting 'samples' that the BS post-RZA crap undie goes for but Edan has some nice beats and ideas going down.

I might hafta check this crunk stuff out.

 

[michael]

Yeah, I've got this on order too... then of course stumbled upon it on a listening post at a huge HMV here, looking nice and cheap and no doubt with extra Japanese-only tracks and shit. *sigh* Ah well, shouldn't be spending money and was using a gift voucher I got given, so that's all good.

Bla bla, all I wanted to say was I'm really looking forward to it. Like dubplatestyle I really like a lot of the stuff sneaking around this territory, but am also really suspicious of some of it... The other thing I got on order is the Steve Spacek solo (with some J Dilla beats, actually), but then I soulseeked that a while back.

This German net label Tokyo Dawn Records have released free stuff by a guy called Comfort Fit that has some Dilla swagger from time to time. The best, BEST stuff I've ever heard on a net label was also on that site, another Detroit crew (I think) called Blaktroniks, an EP called 'p2p pressure'. Sooo worth going and downloading it.

 

[Ness Rowlah]

So how far is Sa-Ra from what they call "nu-soul"?
I mean Spacek is nu-soul is it not? That's what I would call it - and the Wikipedia (as good as any resource on this matter?) says

Neo soul (also known as nu soul) is a musical genre that fuses contemporary R&B, 1970s style soul, and hip hop.

Lost in the genre-maze ... Not that it matters - it's good (the music, not being lost in a maze).

 

[michael]

Spam

I did this track that has a bit of the shtumble going after getting pretty obsessed with stuff like Tribe called Quest's 'The Love Movement' and the first few Spacek singles. Would love some opinions from this hyper-critical crowd. It's one of my favourite things I've done, I should warn you, but I'll try not to be defensive.

http://www.nonwrestler.com/demo/04-awry_smile.mp3

Sorry if this is an uncool use of les forums.

 

[joeschmo]

It is quite amusing to me that various big-name bloggers who would normally be virulently opposed to this kind of thing have for who knows what reasons decided to approve this... it's nice enough--I like this kind of thing fine, myself--but what exactly separates it from Jay Dee especially--who could have done any of these basslines, and in fact probably out-wobbled them on stuff like his Madlib collaboration--or even broken beat, is not really clear... anyway, to my ears, the weak link is the vocals....

 

[gumdrops]

the first post i ever made on dissensus was about sa-ra. dont think ive changed my mind on them since, especially as they insist on releasing more stuff that sounds like the energy-devoid sub-dilla stuff that goes nowhere rather than more tracks like like 'shimmy shimmy' or 'frequencies'. agreed - they could definitely do with someone else singing their own material (bilal would be my pick). theyre not completely terrible vocalists but theyre only a few notches above pharrell IMHO. they sound vaguely camp, actually.

It is quite amusing to me that various big-name bloggers who would normally be virulently opposed to this kind of thing have for who knows what reasons decided to approve this....

well, this might be the one time the straight no chaser crowd and non-gilles peterson listening hipsters agree on something.

 

[mms]

Yeah, I've got this on order too... then of course stumbled upon it on a listening post at a huge HMV here, looking nice and cheap and no doubt with extra Japanese-only tracks and shit. *sigh* Ah well, shouldn't be spending money and was using a gift voucher I got given, so that's all good.

Bla bla, all I wanted to say was I'm really looking forward to it. Like dubplatestyle I really like a lot of the stuff sneaking around this territory, but am also really suspicious of some of it... The other thing I got on order is the Steve Spacek solo (with some J Dilla beats, actually), but then I soulseeked that a while back.

This German net label Tokyo Dawn Records have released free stuff by a guy called Comfort Fit that has some Dilla swagger from time to time. The best, BEST stuff I've ever heard on a net label was also on that site, another Detroit crew (I think) called Blaktroniks, an EP called 'p2p pressure'. Sooo worth going and downloading it.

the steve spacek is nice - he's got a good voice

does anyone know the hypnotec records - ur's electronic hip hop offshoot - some of those records are good ina jay dee stylee

 

[Buick6]

I did this track that has a bit of the shtumble going after getting pretty obsessed with stuff like Tribe called Quest's 'The Love Movement' and the first few Spacek singles. Would love some opinions from this hyper-critical crowd. It's one of my favourite things I've done, I should warn you, but I'll try not to be defensive.

http://www.nonwrestler.com/demo/04-awry_smile.mp3

Sorry if this is an uncool use of les forums.

Is that a track you produced? Was that with Ableton? Yeah, nice stuff, sounds like the Sneaker Pimps meets all that Luomo body-w/o organs sex-life-of-a-robot sorta stuff, or alot of that Austrian post-trip hop stuff from the mid-late 90s (I forget the labels).

 

[michael]

Ah thanks - well, except I actively despise Sneaker Pimps! I find a lot of downbeat stuff really tedious, but I know I basically fit the mould 100%. Haha.. nah, it's all good, thanks for commenting.

I made the track with an old Emu sampler and an early 90s sequencer called Master Tracks Pro.

 

[dominic]

in a similar vein =

tate's place, "burnin" -- which i play pitched up to 45 rpm

 

[dominic]

and raw fusion is also in this mode, methinks, at least to a degree

ANYWAY -- can't say that i've picked up the sa-ra stuff yet -- HOWEVER, they're playing the canal room THIS WEDNESDAY, january 11th -- take the stage at 10 pm -- i figure i'll check it out, so that i can have an opinion about them

and it's pronounced "sah-rah"

 

[dominic]

and jazzanova play cielo this sunday, january 15th -- i mention this only b/c we're kinda on the subject

 

[Buick6]

This SA-Ra is top stuff. Uber-chic hipster cred funk for 2006.

sounds like bits of SunRa keys noodling, P-Funk and OutKast...but better, more edgier..

 

[DavidD]

I can understand why indie rap these days has a bad, er, rap. But there's so much great later-90s underground/indie stuff....I think lambasting it as a genre is totally unfair.

 

[Buick6]

I can understand why indie rap these days has a bad, er, rap. But there's so much great later-90s underground/indie stuff....I think lambasting it as a genre is totally unfair.

If it's shit, it's shit. And most people don't have the time to discover everything. That's up to the critics, radio programmers and trainspotters, 'Star Trumpers'.

 

[Woebot]

It is quite amusing to me that various big-name bloggers who would normally be virulently opposed to this kind of thing have for who knows what reasons decided to approve this...

big name bloggers! is that some sort of cartel? i've gotta hand it to you, whoever they are, you've certainly got tabs on them

it's nice enough--I like this kind of thing fine, myself--but what exactly separates it from Jay Dee especially--who could have done any of these basslines, and in fact probably out-wobbled them on stuff like his Madlib collaboration--or even broken beat, is not really clear... anyway, to my ears, the weak link is the vocals....

what separates it from jay dee? this seems to re-occur alot, i've subsequently taken the time to check out welcome 2 detroit (with the slum village on its way), and it's fabulous, though the slightly proggy curdled 80s revisonism which i hear in sa-ra is almost entirely absent. the dilla is cold and crisp, precisely what one would imagine detroit hip-hop to sound like.

the vocals (which neither you or gumdrops seem to like) are another reason why they're extremely interesting. i've never been much of a fan of the vocal preformance, of "quality vocals" (see Shirley Bassey) and the slightly homespun, rough-edged quality of the sa-ra voices is to me really dreamy. perhaps that clears up some of the confusion as to why i like it, even if we're yet to understand its appeal to "the big name bloggers"

 

[dHarry]

the vocals (which neither you or gumdrops seem to like) are another reason why they're extremely interesting. i've never been much of a fan of the vocal preformance, of "quality vocals" (see Shirley Bassey) and the slightly homespun, rough-edged quality of the sa-ra voices is to me really dreamy.

The vocals on Second Time Around to me sound like 80's Bootsy Collins, circa "I'd Rather Be With You" (from which Outkast bite the same style, say on Roses), totally derivative. Not bad for all that, but I don't hear "homespun, rough-edged, dreamy", just them copping a specific reference point in soul/funk cultural history. The music I find far more interesting and texturally luscious. But then I'm not a big-name blogger, what do I know?!

 

[gumdrops]

co-sign with dharry.

im not after 'professional' or typically 'good' vocals which forsake individuality or their 'rough homespun' qualities (which is usually used as an excuse for shoddiness IMHO) but some sort of vocal ability where it doesnt sound lile their lungs are going to give way or performances where theyre not seemingly on the verge of laughing out loud would be nice. plus, their vocals are just far too 'cool' that the emotion given off is borderline flat. all that said, it does work for some of their songs but they still sound terrible on that new single they did with pharoahe monch.

 

[mms]

that whole ubiquity label that they are mean't to release their album on is an interesting one - kinda broken beat and jazzy techno, john beltran, kirk degiorgio and roy davis junior are on it, gilles peterson repped etc, it's a us label, stuff is massive with the xlr8 crowd big crossovers feat dudes like victor duplaix and king britt,
i didn't know they were part of that scene before i looked at their site..

i wonder if they will ever be as big as they are hyping themselves to be, they are a wee bit too smooth in places.

the j dee new album donuts is very much different from previous things, it's almost frantic with not one track over 2 mins and all staplled together, not many vocals going on, i've listened to it once so far and it was quite a shock.

 

[DavidD]

If it's shit, it's shit.

...and I'm saying it's not all shit.

And most people don't have the time to discover everything. That's up to the critics, radio programmers and trainspotters, 'Star Trumpers'.

What is yr point? Most of the people on dissensus have some degree of familiarity with obscure music. I'm saying that I don't think indie rap, particularly the shit that came out in the late 90s, is deserving of all the bile it recieves.