Neo-Nazi forum hacked

[matt b]

shit, waffle's started emboldening.

 

[IdleRich]

"the right have more weapons"

Why?

 

[waffle]

shit, waffle's started emboldening.

Thanks for confirming your blindness.

 

[waffle]

Why?

Well I don't think going on dissensus when I'm supposed to be working is in breach of any specific part of my contract but it could probably lead to me being disciplined or even sacked.

Don't you pay attention to what you write (or how you 'choose' to live)?

 

[matt b]

"Rights for the blind" is a simplistic, rhyming phrase that developed out of a frustration born out of patronizing left wing sighted people telling working class males to re-educate themselves and re-assess their supposed ignorant, uneducated, right wing tendencies, while same self-styled 'liberal' creeps drooled over any 'blind victim' (their phraseology) in the community that took their fancy that week. Anti-blind people have probably created more blindist tension in UK communities than the sad, pathetic blind people could dream of".

nope, doesn't work. you win.

 

[IdleRich]

"Don't you pay attention to what you write (or how you 'choose' to live)?"

The threat of sacking is an argument to sway someone in favour of the far right (by which you mean capitalism)?

 

[john eden]

[1] You disingenuously allege that "you are making Martin's point for him by suggesting that anyone who criticises the shambles which is the UK left must be sympathetic to the BNP".

This isn't what I said. Martin is blaming the rise of the far right on those - a microscopic minority at this point - who are most active in protesting against them. And you agree with this. [Mainstream parties 'deal' with the far right by appropriating watered-down versions of their policies (to limit their growth), as has been happening all over Europe during the past decade and a half, the political 'centre' being continually normalized further and further to the right].

I don't agree with your assessment of Martin's post. He is not simply blaming the SWP for the rise of the BNP, there is also a criticism of the way that local govenment in the UK has operated over the last 25 years in there.

Quite clearly the protests against the BNP have either been completely ineffective or completely counterproductive. How is that 15 years ago the UK far left dwarfed the far right, and now the situation has reversed?

Obviously mainstream parties adopt whatever policies they think will gain them votes. I don't accept that they consciously do this to limit the growth of the far right. The 3 main parties are far more worried about each other than the BNP.

You conjure up this entirely imaginary entity, "The UK Left", as though it were some vast monolithic structure that has somehow failed itself. What UK Left, exactly? Most of it is now the UK Right! in a country now dominated by three right-wing parties (and similarly right-wing forums like this one. The fact that you're not even aware of this ... [I'll let your imagination finish the sentence]).

Yes yes, the 3 major parties are rightwing neocon anti-working class, whatever. Have a biscuit.

As you seem to characterise everything, including Dissensus, as being right wing it might be useful if you could identify an actual UK group you would consider to be left wing. Perhaps you would like to start with bordiguists such as World Revolution, the UK section of the International Communist Current and work your way rightwards? Or maybe they too are right wing?

I'm not interested in Christopher Hitchens, I'm more interested in political movements and tendencies. Presumably you would agree that ideology and policies are more important than individuals? Blair/Bush/Barack/Brown/Clinton - all faces of the same beast?

Having said that there remain pro-working class rumps inside the Labour Party. You can dismiss this as much as you like (and I would join you in questioning their sanity) but on a ward level there are still a large number of people who are doing good work inspite of and against the ideology of their party. Similarly there are whole swathes of people doing good community and trade union work, some of whom are involved with political organisations and some who are not.

No doubt you will dismiss these people as being right wing or microscopic but that is where I see the real opposition to both the BNP and neoconservativsm coming from.

There are several obstacles which may prevent this happening. One is that large numbers of working class people consider the left to be a complete joke which is entirely out of touch with their day to day lives.

There is no 'natural' left wing constituency. It is disputed terrain, and the right have more weapons (including convincing vast numbers that they are 'left').

I disagree with this. I assume this will be another facet of my naievty or right wing views, or tacit support for the BNP in your eyes - but I (still) believe that the natural constituency for the left is the working class.

You yourself have said that the whole political landscape has careered rightwards. Hence the abandonment of the working class by the vast majority of political parties and tendencies. This has created a vacuum. In the absence of a significant pro-working class left wing movement, the BNP has been able to fill that vacuum.

 

[waffle]

John, I don't believe you have understood much, if anything, about what I was arguing. This does not at all surprise me: having just reviewed the 11+ pages of predominantly sound-bite posts in this thread, I note a level of discussion that approximates a school-yard version of Have I Got News For You self-admiring banter, minus the canned laughter alibi, an idiotic pomo 'oironic self-awareness' gloating that, far from seriously engaging with any of the issues, gradually transmogrifies from an empty, superfluous sniggering at the Right to an equally depthless, couch-potato sneering at the Left, imagining yourselves to be liberated from all political positions (residing in some transcendent, fairytale, post-political land of eternal end-of-history neutrality). A sight to behold!

I don't agree with your assessment of Martin's post. He is not simply blaming the SWP for the rise of the BNP,

At least you've now part-acknowledged what I was arguing. Progress ...

Quite clearly the protests against the BNP have either been completely ineffective or completely counterproductive. How is that 15 years ago the UK far left dwarfed the far right, and now the situation has reversed?

Shit happens? [You really don't know?]

As you seem to characterise everything, including Dissensus, as being right wing

I characterize the right as being right wing (the posts at Dissensus predominantly match any generally-accepted definition of 'right'). You, and others, however, by attributing blame for the rise of the BNP to (what remains of) the left, are effectively positioning the latter to the right of the former, unwittingly moving your 'neutrality' further rightward.

 

[waffle]

The threat of sacking is an argument to sway someone in favour of the far right (by which you mean capitalism)?

Not only are you 'happy' with such a repressive, hierarchical form of socio-economic organization, you're now defending it. Daddy is always right.

 

[john eden]

John, I don't believe you have understood much, if anything, about what I was arguing.

Indeed.

imagining yourselves to be liberated from all political positions (residing in some transcendent, fairytale, post-political land of eternal end-of-history neutrality).

I wouldn't force everyone on this thread into the same (lack of) political position. I can't speak for anyone else but I think lumping martin, mos dan, craner and vimothy into the same heap would require an impressive array of creativity (or blinkeredness).

Just because I am criticising the dominant political positons which are on offer doesn't mean that I see myself as being beyond politics. Or neutral. Quite the reverse, I am entirely clear about my political objectives and priorities. Until quite recently I spent considerable amounts of my time working towards them.

At least you've now part-acknowledged what I was arguing. Progress ...

Did you miss the bit where I said:

I have some sympathy with that but it's too easy to blame it on lefties.

Shit happens? [You really don't know?]

I think I have outlined my analysis of the situation fairly clearly on this thread. You obviously seem to have some problems with it. I am interested in your explanation of the rise of the BNP and what part the self-styled* socialists such as the SWP and the self-styled* left wingers in local government have played in this, if any.

*does "self-styled" help? It might be useful if we could agree on a common terminology here?

I characterize the right as being right wing.

Great, thanks for clearing that one up - the right are "right wing". OK.

 

[IdleRich]

"Not only are you 'happy' with such a repressive, hierarchical form of socio-economic organization, you're now defending it. Daddy is always right."

No, that's the exact opposite of what I meant. Descriptions of threats that await you under capitalism are hardly arguments that will win over the undecided to capitalism are they?
I think that if the right does have any powerful weapon for winning followers it's that someone as unpleasant and disturbed as you insists that they hold a monopoly on leftist thought.

 

[IdleRich]

"I wouldn't force everyone on this thread into the same (lack of) political position. I can't speak for anyone else but I think lumping martin, mos dan, craner and vimothy into the same heap would require an impressive array of creativity (or blinkeredness)."

Not at all, it becomes fairly easy once you recognise the two basic groups which are

1. Waffle and his email buddy Hundredmillionlifetimes
2. The capitalist disavowed apolitical gliberal neocon fascist racist empirical oedipal smugonaut hierachical pathological wrong people

 

[crackerjack]

Not at all, it becomes fairly easy once you recognise the two basic groups which are

1. Waffle and his email buddy Hundredmillionlifetimes
2. The capitalist disavowed apolitical gliberal neocon fascist racist empirical oedipal smugonaut hierachical pathological wrong people

2 sounds cool. I'd want to be in that one, even if I did have some choice.

 

[waffle]

I wouldn't force everyone on this thread into the same (lack of) political position. I can't speak for anyone else but I think lumping martin, mos dan, craner and vimothy into the same heap would require an impressive array of creativity (or blinkeredness).

I'n not familiar with many of Martin's other posts, so it is possible he was just engaging in knee-jerk sarcasm, but an openly and ostentatiously far-right poster like Vimothy who has been spamming and dominating this forum with the most extremist dogma for the past two years, uncritically accepted by the likes of tea, idlerich, craner, et al, leaves no room for doubt. An offensive array of destructive blinkeredness. The fact of the matter is that the mods don't fucking care. Already there's 3 Body No Problem attempting to distance himself from his pathetic 'game theory' mathematized bigotry by hysterically calling for my banning (Ha!) for demonstrating how his precious little game which he first posted in the "Gender, Race, and Class" thread (solely in order to derail that thread) can be easily misapplied to justify, on 'rational choice' grounds, sexual abuse.

 

[crackerjack]

by hysterically calling for my banning (Ha!).

Weird how that keeps happening with you. No doubt for you it simply confirms the truth of your persecution complex (something you share with other nutjobs, from the BNP to jihadis), rather than bring further evidence that you're a cock.

 

[waffle]

No, that's the exact opposite of what I meant. Descriptions of threats that await you under capitalism are hardly arguments that will win over the undecided to capitalism are they?

Now you're being deliberately incoherent. First, you misinterpreted what I actually stated in the guise of asking a ludicrous question; now, after I provided further clarification, you reverse your prior incoherence into yet further obfuscation. You're already 'won over' (as all your posts here tediously affirm), which is why you subscribe to such a regime, stunted child that you are.

I think that if the right does have any powerful weapon for winning followers it's that someone as unpleasant and disturbed as you insists that they hold a monopoly on leftist thought.

You are not only consistently fraudulent, shallow, and reprehensible in your posts here, but - like your 'buddies' vimothy and tea - you're so 'confident' in your sad scatterbrain delusions, you cannot but parade them as if they were reasonable. An ideal 'rational agent' for one of 3 Body No Problem's little master-works.

 

[waffle]

Weird how <snip>.

Weird how you sound like a hired extra at the Salem Witch Trials.

 

[IdleRich]

"you're so 'confident' in your sad scatterbrain delusions, you cannot but parade them as if they were reasonable."

You never make arguments do you? You just state how things are and if anyone disagrees with you you start shouting. If what I say is deluded wouldn't it be more worthwhile to explain or even somehow attempt to demonstrate how this is the case rather than becoming more and more hysterical in your insistence that it is so? For all your bluster you never actually say anything.

 

[droid]

An offensive array of destructive blinkeredness. The fact of the matter is that the mods don't fucking care. Already there's 3 Body No Problem attempting to distance himself from his pathetic 'game theory' mathematized bigotry by hysterically calling for my banning (Ha!) for demonstrating how his precious little game which he first posted in the "Gender, Race, and Class" thread (solely in order to derail that thread) can be easily misapplied to justify, on 'rational choice' grounds, sexual abuse.

Waffle, out of curiosity - do you believe that it is the role of the moderators to ban, delete threads, or otherwise censure posters whose political positions you find offensive?

 

[jenks]

Weird how you sound like a hired extra at the Salem Witch Trials.

Loath to get involved in this as the main people here can look after themselves but I do feel that your representations of various posters here is severely twisted. IdleRich being berated for having the temerity to disagree with you his main crime being reasonable. Have you read Eden's blog - plenty ther eto demonstrate his anti BNP credentials as there is on Martin's blog.

waffle, stop and listen to yourself for a minute