Election incoming

[Mr. Tea]

Or as someone put it on Twitter today...

Why do some insist that “we need someone better than Jeremy”? You think the press would be softer on someone else? We found the gentlest teetotalling vegan in the world who hands out jam he made from fruits on his allotment & they convinced lots of people he’s a demon. Get a grip.

Wanna know something funny?

I went canvassing today. Working-class lifelong Labour voters who "just want to get Brexit done" fucking hate Jeremy Corbyn. Lol.

 

[luka]

A lot of it you can put down to the media but some of it must be some weird psychological mechanism

 

[luka]

The theory that he reminds people of their old idealistic self before they lost their integrity and made the compromises that made them lose respect from themselves is one I find very aPpealing

 

[Mr. Tea]

The policies that Labour has adopted under Corbyn are extremely popular. Corbyn himself is extremely unpopular.

With the same policies but with almost anyone else in charge of the party, Labour would be grinding the Tories up into a fine powder and snorting fat rails of it, media or no media.

 

[sufi]

Idgaf about the press. I'm talking about me, ...

This makes no sense unless you met Jezza and he personally convinced you of his unsuitability? or how did you achieve this advanced level of disintermediation?
I mean i met him years ago and he was great
(unfortunately, the Labour party, politics and elections are all completely shit imho )

 

[luka]

Well assuming he loses and labour get a new leader we might find out but I think this is about destroying this mode of politics. I don't think it's personal.

 

[luka]

This makes no sense unless you met Jezza and he personally convinced you of his unsuitability? or how did you achieve this advanced level of disintermediation?
I mean i met him years ago and he was great
(unfortunately, the Labour party, politics and elections are all completely shit imho )

He's got you there Danny

 

[sufi]

He's got you there Danny

I dunno, I have a lot of time for what Danny comes up with here, genuinely, but there's an inflexibility and wild hyperbole about a lot of people's politics these days that undermines any sense of objectivity (but then cf my sad orphan thread)

 

[IdleRich]

Some people hate Corbyn and some (I'm really in this camp) don't really care about him personally either way but I fear that he is unelectable and so for that reason he probably should not be the leader. Though I agree that the forces which made him unelectable will try the same trick on whoever comes along next and so maybe the solution is not as simple as that. Those two positions are not at all the same although to a lazy observer they might look similar at first glance.

 

[IdleRich]

I went canvassing today. Working-class lifelong Labour voters who "just want to get Brexit done" fucking hate Jeremy Corbyn. Lol.

I don't get it... I'm missing the joke here.
How much do you feel that you are able to communicate with people when you canvass? I mean, can you explain that doing BJ's brexit deal will just be the first step in a long and depressing process and does that ever get through? Or do they just say "Fuck Corbyn and get brexit done!" and slam the door in your face? Does anyone ever say "Oh, that's actually a good point now you say it"? I suppose the hope is that maybe they will later.

 

[DannyL]

Well it's been a long process - I liked him initially and supported the first leadership attempt. Soured on him since then 'cos of foreign policy and Brexit but also arguing online with the Corbyn fan club who want to convince you that 2 +2 + 5. I might write a bit about it later but I'm sorting dinner out now. I'll just say, it's hard to like a dude who was Chair of Stop the War if you've seriously thought about the Syrian conflict.

 

[luka]

I dunno, I have a lot of time for what Danny comes up with here, genuinely, but there's an inflexibility and wild hyperbole about a lot of people's politics these days that undermines any sense of objectivity (but then cf my sad orphan thread)

That's not what he said to me down the pub the other night Danny

 

[sufi]

Well it's been a long process - I liked him initially and supported the first leadership attempt. Soured on him since then 'cos of foreign policy and Brexit but also arguing online with the Corbyn fan club who want to convince you that 2 +2 + 5. I might write a bit about it later but I'm sorting dinner out now. I'll just say, it's hard to like a dude who was Chair of Stop the War if you've seriously thought about the Syrian conflict.

(just done the dinner!)

The STWC wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_the_War_Coalition seems to have reached a happy equilibrium of acknowledging the criticisms as well as the counter-arguments. But maybe you don't accept that account or the situation?

My take on the Syria angle is that this type of wishy washy "support" for Assad by campaigners on the fringe of UK politics thousands of miles away is insignificant compared to the military might dropped on Syria against ISIS (a de facto position of actual military support for Assad)
and that the campaign should keep on standing up against violence in the middle east in our names since virtually no-one in actual power gives a shit.

It's probably a great victory against a worthwhile campaign that it's no longer seen as impartial in that conflict a casualty of UK domestic politics wallowing in it's own filth

But I like to think that I'm looking through a very objective and non-partisan lens , rather than stretching reality to create extreme positions in support of some sort of high level ideological mission.

 

[luka]

What I distrust more than anything is people who act like they're too grown up for left wing politics, killing, guillotines, appropriation and redistribution of resources, class war, forced nationalisations etc

Who equate a grown up politics with being boring and equating power as presently constituted as some kind of state of nature.

I say kill now and share out the booty.

You won't hear any wild hyperbole from me Sufi, I promise you that

 

[sufi]

I think Rich's point is a good un - that Labour need someone electable and if JC is not that guy then maybe they need someone else. TBH for a long time I assumed that he was a placeholder, and a way for Labour to get out from under Blairism, and would be replaced when the election became imminent (preferably with a nice woman).

I do remember how Kinnock and Foot were ridiculed in opposition though. In election season there are extra requirements for media impartiality, and somehow as soon as the election is announced the slide towards Labour starts - when they actually begin to get their voices heard - that's how it played in 2017... let's hope that they have enough time to make it happen to a greater extent this time.

 

[sufi]

You won't hear any wild hyperbole from me Sufi, I promise you that

Aw

 

[sufi]

sorry i should have put some "" around "electable" as it's such a bullshit concept

 

[subvert47]

Wanna know something funny?

I went canvassing today. Working-class lifelong Labour voters who "just want to get Brexit done" fucking hate Jeremy Corbyn. Lol.

It's not particularly funny. There are loads of people like that up here in Brexitland. Ask them why they hate Corbyn and they can't really tell you. They just come out with some recycled contradictory tabloid bullshit which they can't back up at all. Ultimately it boils down to "because he's awful".

People who actually meet Corbyn, on the other hand, are generally very impressed by him. Then you get "I thought he was awful, but...". If he could meet and talk to everybody face to face, we'd probably have a Labour landslide.

 

[luka]

My mum's like that. Ooh that awful man. But if you go what don't you like about him she gets all agitated and can't give you an answer. She's a lifelong labour voter too.

Troubling phenomenon.

 

[Mr. Tea]

OK we just need to get Corbyn to meet everyone in the country over the next twelve days and the election is as good as won.