UK EU Referendum Thoughts

[Mr. Tea]

Yeah all these sort of arguments rest on the assumption that we would do the right thing were it not for Europe but we wouldn't cos we're cunts too

This government is not known for throwing huge sums of cash around willy-nilly, except at very deserving causes like obscenely over-exposed banks and hedge funds. Farmers may be traditional Tory voters but I suspect there are too few of them to worry about in terms of lost votes if this cash were to disappear.

I agree there are probably environmental protection laws that we have the EU to thank for but whatever there is doesn't seem to be having much impact on, say, fracking or plans for a third runway at Heathrow.

 

[luka]

No they won't but leaving EU doesn't have any effect on that stuff either so seems a bit academic.

 

[vimothy]

I think a lot of people rationalise it in the same way, if they're honest.

 

[luka]

It's the reason independence and sovereignty don't stir my blood

 

[vimothy]

Modest, too.

 

[luka]

And I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

 

[luka]

Maybe I'll read the sun/telegraph

 

[Mr. Tea]

And I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Never thought I'd see luka quoting U2, I have to say. Although I guess all bets are off after that Sting & The Police thread.

 

[droid]

Personally, I would like Britain to recover its independence.

And they say nationalism is dead.

 

[Mr. Tea]

There's a persuasive argument that the neoliberal/antidemocratic tendencies within the EU are reason not to pull out, but to stay in and attempt to reform it.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/23/labour-jeremy-corbyn-pro-eu-referendum-brexit

Which would certainly be brave, dunno how effective it would be with Merkel at the helm in Germany. Hollande might be up for it but he's on shaky ground in terms of popularity in his own country. Although I suppose debates about the EU in both countries are probably being dominated by immigration/refugees at the moment.

 

[droid]

And of course the idea that the UK could be take on anti-neo-liberal democracy expanding reforming role is patently absurd.

 

[Mr. Tea]

And of course the idea that the UK could be take on anti-neo-liberal democracy expanding reforming role is patently absurd.

Even with...

*drum roll*

...Jeremy Corbyn in charge?

 

[luka]

And of course the idea that the UK could be take on anti-neo-liberal democracy expanding reforming role is patently absurd.

This, obviously

 

[luka]

EU is more brake than accelerator

 

[droid]

Even with...

*drum roll*

...Jeremy Corbyn in charge?

lol... I... guess so?

 

[Mr. Tea]

lol... I... guess so?

Hey, I'm talking hypothetically here. Very hypothetically. Of course I am aware that the election of a left-wing Labour PM, were it to happen, is not going to magically undo 40 years of Thatcherism any more than the election of a brown-skinned POTUS vanquished racism in the USA.

 

[vimothy]

It's the neoliberal and antidemocratic tendencies that are the reasons for the EU's attractiveness to the British political mainstream.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Right, but what I'm asking is what could be achieved if someone from outside the neoliberal mainstream were to gain power in several of the EU's major economies. ('Outside' meaning 'to the left of', btw.)

 

[droid]

Clearly there is some genuine fear there - look at Portugal & Greece.

 

[luka]

It would be fun wouldn't it