UK EU Referendum Aftermath

[Mr. Tea]

Ceta is the new one.

Right, but Canada's small beer compared to the USA.

 

[droid]

Its potentially worse than TTIP, or so Im told.

 

[Corpsey]

if free trade deals go away, the same americans who've railed against them will eventually start complaining about the loss of cheap goods. those manufacturing factories in the rust belt ain't coming back anytime soon, if ever. i feel for people without college degrees living in those areas who've seen their manufacturing jobs disappear, not easy for them to simply retrain or relocate. a fucked situation, but campaign rhetoric from a demagogue isn't the solution to their problems.

Agree with all the above. Obviously Trump doesn't give a fuck about anybody else, least of all the powerless.

Globalisation is creating these problems (not least the environmental damage being created by global industrialisation) which people are looking to the right (even the FAR right) to solve. The thing is, I think many on the left don't see immigration as a problem, or consider it racist to even suggest that it is, but clearly on some level economic immigration is CREATED by neo-liberalism, by free trade, the outsourcing of labour, etc. This seems to be the most persistent anti-left complaint I see popping up: that Labour and the left in general are so middle-class that they don't understand the enmity working-class people feel towards immigration. The Tories don't care about the working-class, clearly, but helpfully for them they are either racist or cynical enough to get behind the 'foreigners out!' message.

It's really worrying to think how much worse things are likely to get, what with the ecological catastrophe of climate change, the machination of more and more labour, the increasing population, etc. Has history shown us that in times of crisis people become more empathetic and selfless?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Its potentially worse than TTIP, or so Im told.

Well Canada's diabolically bad track record on environmental issues is certainly cause for alarm, at any rate.

 

[firefinga]

Agree with all the above. Obviously Trump doesn't give a fuck about anybody else, least of all the powerless.

Globalisation is creating these problems (not least the environmental damage being created by global industrialisation) which people are looking to the right (even the FAR right) to solve. The thing is, I think many on the left don't see immigration as a problem, or consider it racist to even suggest that it is, but clearly on some level economic immigration is CREATED by neo-liberalism, by free trade, the outsourcing of labour, etc. This seems to be the most persistent anti-left complaint I see popping up: that Labour and the left in general are so middle-class that they don't understand the enmity working-class people feel towards immigration. The Tories don't care about the working-class, clearly, but helpfully for them they are either racist or cynical enough to get behind the 'foreigners out!' message.

It's really worrying to think how much worse things are likely to get, what with the ecological catastrophe of climate change, the machination of more and more labour, the increasing population, etc. Has history shown us that in times of crisis people become more empathetic and selfless?

You ain't seen nothing yet - bc it's (formerly) well paid middle class white collar jobs being diminished right now, for example in the banking/finance sector. Mainly bc customers do the work of those bank clerks now themselves via internet banking on their smartphones. Same as in retail. Younger people simply don't buy stuff in shops any more, all over the internet. Lots and lots of job gone forever. In Austria where I live banks are closing half of their outlets, and those employees getting fired won't find an equally well paid job. And history shows if the middle class struggles economically, they usually turn to the right.

 

[owengriffiths]

Well Canada's diabolically bad track record on environmental issues is certainly cause for alarm, at any rate.

Surely now that Councilman Carcetti is in power that will all stop.

 

[vimothy]

Surely TIPP would be good for our economy in much the same way as the EU...?

 

[luka]

Eh? How do you know? I thought it was secret? Am I confused?

 

[vimothy]

The IMF identifies “political discord and inward looking policies” as one of the two big risks to its prediction that global growth will increase slightly... the others being stagnation in advanced economies.

These two factors are, of course, interlinked. If western economies continue to struggle, protectionist pressures are going to rise...

The solution... is a three-pronged approach rather than the continued reliance on central banks, with their ultra-low interest rates and money creation schemes. Governments have to loosen fiscal policy... where there is scope to do so, and reallocate spending towards growth-enhancing sectors...

Finally, there have to be measures aimed at supporting those harmed by economic change, whether as the result of globalisation or technological overhaul, such as stronger welfare nets and more progressive income tax regimes.

One explanation for the IMF’s hyperbolic warnings about the immediate impact of the Brexit vote is that it thought the expected remain vote would mean they would never have to be justified. Now that it has, the IMF is terrified because it sees the UK referendum as symptomatic of something deeply dysfunctional about the global economy it has helped to shape in the past four decades. Which indeed it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...um-european-union-international-monetary-fund

 

[Mr. Tea]

Surely TIPP would be good for our economy in much the same way as the EU...?

Something can be "good for the economy" in the technical sense of reducing unemployment, boosting trade and increasing the value of the FTSE 100, but still bad for anyone who doesn't want to live in a horribly polluted and unequal corporatist hell-hole.

 

[Corpsey]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...al-to-make-firms-reveal-foreign-staff-numbers

This seems almost Fascistic to me, but then I think of the Tories as undeclared blackshirts already. Does anybody buy Rudd's argument for this?

 

[luka]

It's anti reality.

 

[luka]

I don't even know what these people want. I got that globalist neo lib agenda. It made sense. I could follow it. This is just like fuck it burn it down

 

[Corpsey]

I don't believe the Tories actually believe in anything. They're so transparently toadying up to the right-wing press (and giving heart to racists) with this stuff, while simultaneously pushing this paper-thin 'We'll make this country work for everybody!' line.

 

[vimothy]

There are obviously a lot of people who aren't positively disposed to globalisation, and they vote. That's reality.

 

[luka]

Once people start making decisions that don't seem to be based on economic considerations I get confused. Like, where are you even coming from? Don't you like money?

 

[luka]

There are obviously a lot of people who aren't positively disposed to globalisation, and they vote. That's reality.

That's always been the case. I'm just wondering what the tory party agenda is right now. I don't understand it.

 

[vimothy]

What's so hard to understand? They want to make some kind of nominal attempt to reflect the wishes of their constituents.

 

[luka]

Interesting analysis but it doesn't ring true.

 

[vimothy]

So is it a global conspiracy on the part of the ruling classes, or just a coincidence that similar dynamics can be seen across the developed world?