how do we rewind the clock back to kirk degiorgio times and detoxify our violated ears of the abominations that are hardcore acid, ragga jungle, happy hardcore, oldskool hardcore, hard techno, hard trance, gabba, uk garage, 90s southern hip hop? Indoctrinate us in the ways of lonnie liston smith patty. tell me why i should delete my copy of cecil taylor conquistador. tell me why i should delete my elephant man records.
I want to fall in love
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pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
It's gotta come from deep within, baby
I used to be all edgy like you, third. Disco saved me
I used to be all edgy like you, third. Disco saved me
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Assuming you're not yankin me chain:
I think DFW was onto something with his pov on irony and post modernism. The way it creates a jaded, vacuous reality. I'm not sure why but I never really got swept up by all that. Maybe because I'm stunted, still very much a kid at heart, even though I grew up in its most rampant era. No idea... And I don't think I'm better either, don't get me wrong. I can be entertained by it, even participate. But ultimately it feels like a dead end. It leads us to a world of meaninglessness, in art, conversation, human connection. A devil's trick. The wolf licking the hunter's blood covered blade.
My path from darkboi to lovejoy started as angsty teen, harder, darker breaks based club music, to gilles and then jeff to osunlade, eventually landing on theo who finally snapped me into being the disco fiend I am today. Those 4 made the biggest impact, but there were countless others.
The running theme through all of those guys is basically black soul music. Music born of pain and alchemised into medicine. That's how I see it. We all know pain, we can all respond to this music on that level. It's just whether you want to or not. Plenty of people are happy to have it as pure entertainment. That's fine. There's a fun side to much of it. But for me it's more of a guide, a story, allegory. A place to feel connected to that undisputable, cosmic truth. The true beauty of life. Warts and all. Theres so much wisdom to learn from this music. Question is, are you open to receive it? Some people don't feel the need, the desire. I don't know how to flip the switch if you're already way on the other side of the spectrum. For me it was innate from pretty much birth. I grew up listening to black music or if not, music that was heavily derived from black music. Dancing from a young age. Music was always solace. Life source, light source.
I find that a lot of white Europeans tend to intellectualise, categorise and dissect this music. For me this is leading you towards that dead end where all the life gets sucked out of it. It gentrifies, it tidies it up and puts picket fences around the edges. Defangs it. Makes it more palatable. And why? Because they don't have the same type of creativity inside of them so their only way to interface with it, the clearly richer life force, is to try to apply logic & science. Academize it. Build institutions, write books, codify it. Make themselves the authority. Same as the majority of history. Find something organic, beautiful, steal it and make it their own. Why is Eric Clapton the most famous blues guitarist to so many people? Why are there rarely any non white drummers in the yearly top drummer lists? Music got whitewashed. No credit paid. And yet, with all that clear as day and totally fair reason to hate, you still had people like sly stone making multicultured bands, not even making a fuss about it and saying let's all get together and have some fun. That guy had quite the lake of love to dive into. Deep stuff.
Rambling now, but hopefully you can put it all together. Being dark, being hard is easy. It feels cool. Being light, being love takes work. But there are plenty of sages who made the music that tells you all about it. I never had anyone to teach me, so I listened and learned. I was fortunate enough to put some of what I learned into practise. But I know there's still a long way to go. I'm just grateful to know that I'll always have sly's music, John's music, curtis' music ad infinitum to help me along the way. All that can be said has already been said many times over. You just have to want to learn.
P. S. This all sounds very objective. Know that there's always room to wiggle. Like for eg, I know there's black academics and soulful white people. Try not to get sidetracked with that.
I think DFW was onto something with his pov on irony and post modernism. The way it creates a jaded, vacuous reality. I'm not sure why but I never really got swept up by all that. Maybe because I'm stunted, still very much a kid at heart, even though I grew up in its most rampant era. No idea... And I don't think I'm better either, don't get me wrong. I can be entertained by it, even participate. But ultimately it feels like a dead end. It leads us to a world of meaninglessness, in art, conversation, human connection. A devil's trick. The wolf licking the hunter's blood covered blade.
My path from darkboi to lovejoy started as angsty teen, harder, darker breaks based club music, to gilles and then jeff to osunlade, eventually landing on theo who finally snapped me into being the disco fiend I am today. Those 4 made the biggest impact, but there were countless others.
The running theme through all of those guys is basically black soul music. Music born of pain and alchemised into medicine. That's how I see it. We all know pain, we can all respond to this music on that level. It's just whether you want to or not. Plenty of people are happy to have it as pure entertainment. That's fine. There's a fun side to much of it. But for me it's more of a guide, a story, allegory. A place to feel connected to that undisputable, cosmic truth. The true beauty of life. Warts and all. Theres so much wisdom to learn from this music. Question is, are you open to receive it? Some people don't feel the need, the desire. I don't know how to flip the switch if you're already way on the other side of the spectrum. For me it was innate from pretty much birth. I grew up listening to black music or if not, music that was heavily derived from black music. Dancing from a young age. Music was always solace. Life source, light source.
I find that a lot of white Europeans tend to intellectualise, categorise and dissect this music. For me this is leading you towards that dead end where all the life gets sucked out of it. It gentrifies, it tidies it up and puts picket fences around the edges. Defangs it. Makes it more palatable. And why? Because they don't have the same type of creativity inside of them so their only way to interface with it, the clearly richer life force, is to try to apply logic & science. Academize it. Build institutions, write books, codify it. Make themselves the authority. Same as the majority of history. Find something organic, beautiful, steal it and make it their own. Why is Eric Clapton the most famous blues guitarist to so many people? Why are there rarely any non white drummers in the yearly top drummer lists? Music got whitewashed. No credit paid. And yet, with all that clear as day and totally fair reason to hate, you still had people like sly stone making multicultured bands, not even making a fuss about it and saying let's all get together and have some fun. That guy had quite the lake of love to dive into. Deep stuff.
Rambling now, but hopefully you can put it all together. Being dark, being hard is easy. It feels cool. Being light, being love takes work. But there are plenty of sages who made the music that tells you all about it. I never had anyone to teach me, so I listened and learned. I was fortunate enough to put some of what I learned into practise. But I know there's still a long way to go. I'm just grateful to know that I'll always have sly's music, John's music, curtis' music ad infinitum to help me along the way. All that can be said has already been said many times over. You just have to want to learn.
P. S. This all sounds very objective. Know that there's always room to wiggle. Like for eg, I know there's black academics and soulful white people. Try not to get sidetracked with that.
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pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
30:00 this shit right here.
White Europeans man... Blanka want to electrocute
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
"To make funkiness more mathematic...not sweaty any more" I like the guy's music, but.... (side note - he sounds a bit like Jaki Liebezeit, in the flow of his voice rather than the accent). Worth remembering of course that someone like Robert Hood reference maths in his track titles etc.
Re yr last post - Well, 'whiteness' itself comes from a desire to categorise, so not surprising that that logic remains inherent in it. Didn't someone the other day talk about how funk was named and categorised in retrospect, and didn't really exist as a discrete genre in the 70s?
Re yr last post - Well, 'whiteness' itself comes from a desire to categorise, so not surprising that that logic remains inherent in it. Didn't someone the other day talk about how funk was named and categorised in retrospect, and didn't really exist as a discrete genre in the 70s?
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Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Is this something inherently white (is there a funk gene?), or a product of the way European culture has happened to evolve? Is it a product of overeducation, or some wider obsession with logic (post-Enlightenment)?
Why is the British folk dance the bloody morris dance? Is there something in the water here? Or were our caucasoid descendents so pale because they hid in the caves when the others were limbo dancing in the midday sun?
Starting to feel like Boris Johnson even as I type.
Why is the British folk dance the bloody morris dance? Is there something in the water here? Or were our caucasoid descendents so pale because they hid in the caves when the others were limbo dancing in the midday sun?
Starting to feel like Boris Johnson even as I type.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Yeah and that's cool, I'm not saying music should be anti intellectual at all. I'm saying that it can go a bit far.
Yeah, I don't know about that though. I mean again, some people are busy making it while others are busy picking it apart.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk
And there were plenty of bands making songs with funk in the name and even bands with funk in their name!
I'm also a big fan of his work. But it's that little snippet of him that to me illustrates the nub of the difference in approaches. And living in Germany I can tell you that's how they roll.
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Corpsey
bandz ahoy
I must have died and gone to heaven
cos about quarter past eleven
on a Saturday in ninety-ninety-niiiiine
trust me patty i know what pain is your liverpudlian family ain't even heard of bloodfeuds, now that's real pain and suffering. I'm from the heart of anatolia, i know what pain is. we invented it, alongside west africa. the blues goes back to the middle east and muslims, after all.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Seems like a ridiculous conceit but I don't think I really understood German music like Roedelius until I visited Munich and the environs this year. Germany's an interesting country from the POV of pain, since it hit bottom around 1945, so that Roedelius e.g. is like a soothing balm applied to an axe wound.
but this is not reflective of 2010s England is it. more innocent, more wholesome times. that's great and all but I don't want to fall down the pop culture is opiate for the masses rabithole. and it's a bit ironic in this regard that outside of the states Theo Parrish plays almost exclusively to white people - I mean, I've seen the guy dj several times, he has the crates and the knowledge for sure, no question, but at the same time I'm thinking he must subconsciously tailor his sets to white soulboys on some respects - I know he tries to speak out against this but it falls a bit flat. Not saying this to invalidate his work in any shape or form...
paradoxically I don't get this feeling with rob hood, but then at his best his sets are nails and funky simultaneously.
paradoxically I don't get this feeling with rob hood, but then at his best his sets are nails and funky simultaneously.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
Oh no u dident
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, he's someone who straddles both sides of this, it's not necessarily a direct opposition.
Never saw the big deal with Theo Parrish either.
chava
Well-known member
Now what? Hate on Theo AND Wolfgang in the same thread?!. You sure know how to trigger me.
The bit about how old Wolfgang want to make dancefloors 'cooler', less euphoric, was just a part of his oevure (his minimal Studio 1 phase). He later on and of course in the beginning of his career made rave trax as euphoric as they could be. He has always been very anti-academic by the way and specifically referenced Pop/Glam music early on. Although also compared the 909 to Goethe, so there you go.
Wolfgang Voigt is my number one artist coming out of the rave generation as he continually has renewed himself and always gone against what was the acceptable, official position. Every other techno&rave/junglist head from the 90s has either become embarrasing or just kept on doing the same thing way beyond its
He has now gotten into the acceptable 'Pitchfork' demographics with his Gas stuff. Perhaps if wasn't initally released on Mille Plateaux he wouldn't be lumped into thet arty crowd. He is so misunderstood in the anglo world.
And Theos early stuff on Sound Signature is the coming together of the spiritual and the bodily as no one has ever did in house music.
Had so say this.
The bit about how old Wolfgang want to make dancefloors 'cooler', less euphoric, was just a part of his oevure (his minimal Studio 1 phase). He later on and of course in the beginning of his career made rave trax as euphoric as they could be. He has always been very anti-academic by the way and specifically referenced Pop/Glam music early on. Although also compared the 909 to Goethe, so there you go.
Wolfgang Voigt is my number one artist coming out of the rave generation as he continually has renewed himself and always gone against what was the acceptable, official position. Every other techno&rave/junglist head from the 90s has either become embarrasing or just kept on doing the same thing way beyond its
He has now gotten into the acceptable 'Pitchfork' demographics with his Gas stuff. Perhaps if wasn't initally released on Mille Plateaux he wouldn't be lumped into thet arty crowd. He is so misunderstood in the anglo world.
And Theos early stuff on Sound Signature is the coming together of the spiritual and the bodily as no one has ever did in house music.
Had so say this.