Before you post yet another, ask yourself

[k-punk]

Obv Blairite quotas are absurd... but you can't ignore threads if there are so many that you can't keep track of anything...

This is more like what i was suggesting:

Well maybe not, but seperate "Music: Discussion" and "Music: Announcements" fora would be useful if people bothered to use them correctly. However I think annoucments about gigs are supposed to go in "Misc" anyway -but people don't do that either because they don't know or because they correctly perceive that more people read this forum.

more effective use of existing threads would also help: genuinely asking 'is a new thread necessary or can this be posted on one that already exists?'

 

[john eden]

more effective use of existing threads would also help: genuinely asking 'is a new thread necessary or can this be posted on one that already exists?'

Yes.

Plus - there is nothing to stop people launching into big discussions in "announcements" (of for example Paul's mixes, or reviewing a night in the same thread which announced it).

If you rank the threads by replys there is quite a lot of "announce" stuff with 1 or 2 responses - especially links to mp3s or mixes or things bigging up nights out or radio shows.

 

[Diggedy Derek]

I think a separate "announcements" or "mix" forum would be a bit of a ghetto- I'd rather have it all together, to stimulate debate.

I don't think there are too many grime threads, but I agree that some of the them can be a bit of a dead end. But I want to keep the majority of them. If I was to suggest rules, it would be that anyone who posts a mix or event should give at least a couple of sentences to describe it. Also, if someone is posting about something that's already being discussed, perhaps we could point them in the direction of the new topic. I think the best way to raise the level of debate is to engage really, for us to ask questions about their mix/event- it encourages people to involve themselves more.

Anyway, grime compilations on CD. I wish there were some. I'd love some company to be doing 10-12 track CDs, bunging each producer/artist some cash and some royalties, but getting them out there quickly and without fuss. I'm sure it's not that easy of course.

 

[k-punk]

i don't understand why people expect higher standards from hip hop than they do from society in general. music does not exist in a vacuum and its impossible to live in this system without being compromised in some way or another. i hardly think goth with its apolitical and spoilt no-one-understands-me theme is exempt from this.

actually the exact opposite happens tho. Standards routinely applied in everyday life are mysteriously suspended in relation to hip hop.

and in any case, i'd rather emerse myself in the "rapacious greed" of modern-day hip hop (a gross generalisation than only stands up to scrutiny if you only take the basest chart hits as your sample

surely exactly the opposite again... like obscure crunk is full of female-positive messages about the coming communist revolution?

than ten year old navel gazing indie

1: false opposition. The only alternative to hip hop greedium is not The Cure.

2: in what sense is it 'indie'? Pornography was on a major label and the term 'indie' didn't exist in 1982.

for introverts

Yeh, because extroverts are so interesting, I agree, what we need is more of them.

fronted by man who has the lipstick application skills of a 3 year old toddler.

yeh but at least he can pull up his trousers

 

[k-punk]

I think a separate "announcements" or "mix" forum would be a bit of a ghetto- I'd rather have it all together, to stimulate debate.

but they don't stimulate anything, that's the point! Plus, announcements presumably get buried under the deluge of threads like everything else....

 

[Diggedy Derek]

Perhaps we should hound people in something like an ILM style, then, that's my point- if someone posts something random, we should ask them more questions, hounding them like an enthusiastic and friendly dog in a pub.

My point is, it'd be better if dissensus was self-moderated, rather than having set rules about what constuitutes worthwhile posts.

 

[k-punk]

Perhaps we should hound people in something like an ILM style, then, that's my point- if someone posts something random, we should ask them more questions, hounding them like an enthusiastic and friendly dog in a pub.

My point is, it'd be better if dissensus was self-moderated, rather than having set rules about what constuitutes worthwhile posts.

I agree. Most worthwhile boards have a set of expectations which exert informal pressure on people to post relevantly etc. There needs to be some sense that what you have to say is important enough to merit its own thread etc.

 

[Grievous Angel]

Re: Grime CDs -- we all agree it would be better if there were more of them. Cue the man like MMS: http://www.warprecords.com. Has Street Anthems Mix CD and some others. Go get.

Great discussion between K-Punk and Bassnation -- no winner but good points well made.

I think an announcements forum is a good idea -- but lets face it, the traffic and the kudos is in Music (w.r.t music-related matters, of course Thought et al are equally valuable).

I don't think we want Blairite quotas, indeed I'm sure no-one does (well, I'd like the consulting contract that goes with it...). But equally, I have a feeling that Mark wants the world to stop. I don't perceive the avalanche of vacuous Grime threads Mark describes, just the odd dull one. In fact I don't think there's anything wrong that a bit of strategic scrolling wouldn't fix: don't like it? Don't read it. Nevertheless, if there's a feeling there's an issue, we need to discuss it.


PS: the term "indie" bloody well did exist in 1982! At least it did in Essex anyway! (And I think in the NME and MM charts, but I could be wrong.)

PPS: tell me we don't want another ILM... PLEASE... my ego is just too fragile for that sort of roughness, in fact I remember Matt saying something about that at the inception of Dissensus...

PPPS: but, Stelfox, you're a shagger, surely you've experienced the joys of EB's "rimshot" while getting down wi da laydeeez? No that is not a reference to oral-anal sex.

 

[Diggedy Derek]

Oh yeah, I wouldn't be that interested in having a board as chaotic and noisy as ILM.

 

[Landfill Elektronikz]

a four page thread discussing the correct use of threads?

dissensus will eat itself...

i'm all for ANARCHY

 

[k-punk]

I don't think we want Blairite quotas, indeed I'm sure no-one does (well, I'd like the consulting contract that goes with it...). But equally, I have a feeling that Mark wants the world to stop. I don't perceive the avalanche of vacuous Grime threads Mark describes, just the odd dull one. In fact I don't think there's anything wrong that a bit of strategic scrolling wouldn't fix: don't like it? Don't read it. Nevertheless, if there's a feeling there's an issue, we need to discuss it.

Well, I know I'm not the only one ... the sheer amount of threads militates against scrolling... to be honest, I rarely look at the music threads unless someone draws my attention to them... the turnover is so vast, I can't keep pace...

PS: the term "indie" bloody well did exist in 1982! At least it did in Essex anyway! (And I think in the NME and MM charts, but I could be wrong.)

Really? I could be wrong, but what I am certain about is that it didn't have the signification it now has. There simply wasn't generic 'indie' (i.e. back to basics jangle retropop) until the mid 80s; it was the equivocation between THAT sense of indie and 'independent' or 'alternative' that I objected to.

PPS: tell me we don't want another ILM... PLEASE... my ego is just too fragile for that sort of roughness, in fact I remember Matt saying something about that at the inception of Dissensus...

well, I'm on record for my support of the ILM model

seriously though, it doesn't have to be nasty... just with some higher expectations....

 

[Landfill Elektronikz]

this is the way, step inside....

this is the way, step inside....

 

[atomly]

Well, 26% of all Music threads being devoted to Grime could be said to be over-representing its significance I would say. (And we'd also need data about length of replies too - how many are more than one line?)

I agree that the problem isn't exclusive to Grime threads, it's that there are too many music threads per se. It seems to me that every time I come back there are virtually a page's worth of new threads. Makes it impossible to keep track. I agree with Owen, we need harsher disciplining of ppl who start threads on topics that have already been discussed.

Weird. I'm new here, but I was thinking the big problem is the lack of new discussion. I guess I'm used to hyperactive message boards with a page of new threads every day...

 

[D84]

Not to anticipate the discussion on the Hip Hop thread, but I think it is a fair point to compare Industrial and Hip Hop.

In the `80s both were innovating electronic pop music. Now they are both followers instead of leaders and both often have a boring aura of nostalgia for past glory days.

I realise the difficulty of doing something "original" (yeah, it's another critical minefield) and this could apply equally to other styles of music - somehow Rock springs immediately to mind...

What's the new Skinny Puppy album "The Greater Wrong of the Right" like anyway btw?

 

[dsp13]

my 2 yen...

we need harsher disciplining of ppl who start threads on topics that have already been discussed

RIDICULOID...

I find there's a tendency on this board for a few people to hijack the original thread topic and turn it into a 30 post debate on something barely related... if this weren't the case, perhaps a mammoth sticky grime thread would be a viable solution but i don't wanna scroll through 6 pages of posts on whether a grime lyric is homophobic or not... why not save the essays for your blog / site / magazine / journal of musical pontification??? just a thought and I can feel the hate coming back at me already but... I come here to read about grime and many other things... there are plenty of posts about 80's shoe gazer bands and house music that don't interest me but I just don't read them...

 

[dominic]

just to add my two cents, i think we should have one forum devoted to discussion and debate of music-related issues and then a second forum for promotion, event announcements, mixes, posting links to mixes, etc

and i think each forum would have its own value

but let's face it, postings that announce events or provide a link to a dj mix are in the main self-interested = "this is what i'm up to at the moment, or what my peeps are up to, please check it out so that you can learn about me and my crew, b/c i crave your recognition" -- though of course a cool event or a good mix has the potential of being a gift to others -- or at least carries a kind of informational content that satisfies our curiosity about one another, i.e., so-and-so is into this sound or this kind of party-- and therein lies the value of such posts to the larger dissensus community

whereas the music forum proper should be free of narrow self-interest -- i.e., the postings should be of interest to many people -- the subject of each posting worthy of discussion and debate -- or at least the postings would have this purpose, even if many postings should fail to inspire much discussion -- and so there'd be this expectation that people would try to meet

(of course there'd still be the problem of determining which forum to put reviews of events -- i.e., reviews of what was earlier announced tend to be of much wider interest than the original announcement)

last, i'd leave the miscellaneous forum for truly miscellaneous postings

ALSO -- what ever happened to the suggestion that certain forums be merged, e.g., politics and thought could be combined, and so too literature, art and film

 

[k-punk]

[QUOTE = dsp13]
there are plenty of posts about 80's shoe gazer bands and house music that don't interest me but I just don't read them...[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen one thread on an 80s shoegazer band, but perhaps I missed it in the thicket of grime threads. That's the point really --- too many threads and too few where there is any worthwhile sustained discussion. Also if you think it is 'ridiculoid' that folk are censured for endlessly starting threads on topics that have already been discussed, do you think that this practice is a good one?

j
what ever happened to the suggestion that certain forums be merged, e.g., politics and thought could be combined, and so too literature, art and film

I can't see how that will help ---- I have no problem with the number of forums, only the number of threads started on the music forum.

 

[stelfox]

Weird. I'm new here, but I was thinking the big problem is the lack of new discussion. I guess I'm used to hyperactive message boards with a page of new threads every day...

atomly is right. there's a real lack of any kind of discussion going on here. i'd like to see more intensely active threads rather than less. the more ideas flying around the better, it just doesn't really strike me that anyone has any at the moment, unless they're of the "here's why i think pop music is evil" variety (and those i just can't read).

 

[stelfox]

but let's face it, postings that announce events or provide a link to a dj mix are in the main self-interested = "this is what i'm up to at the moment, or what my peeps are up to, please check it out so that you can learn about me and my crew, b/c i crave your recognition"

sorry but this is sanctimonious crap. does giving people a mix you've spent considerable time and effort compiling, or tipping people off about a radio show or concert you're involved in really prove that you crave attention and recognition any more than posting several thousand words a day on internet forums? i really don't want to be an arsehole or unnecessarily unpleasant, but that's really uppity nonsense and i'm getting a little bored with everyone's actions being subject to this kind of scrutiny by a select few here. really, who are you to question anyone's motives? a lot of people who use this board work hard at what they do and plenty of people are, in turn, interested in these projects (whatever form they might take). can we please enjoy the fact that we've got a forum that allows this kind of exchange and stop being so snippy?

 

[Landfill Elektronikz]

sorry but this is sanctimonious crap. does giving people a mix you've spent considerable time and effort compiling, or tipping people off about a radio show or concert you're involved in really prove that you crave attention and recognition any more than posting several thousand words a day on internet forums? i really don't want to be an arsehole or unnecessarily unpleasant, but that's really uppity nonsense and i'm getting a little bored with everyone's actions being subject to this kind of scrutiny by a select few here. really, who are you to question anyone's motives? a lot of people who use this board work hard at what they do and plenty of people are, in turn, interested in these projects (whatever form they might take). can we please enjoy the fact that we've got a forum that allows this kind of exchange and stop being so snippy?

Out to the Stelfox on this one! Big message!! Can I get a rewind?