OK time to fess up
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soundslike1981
Well-known member
Ned said:
No Doubt and other Nth-Wave "ska/ska-punk" bands kept me from discovering that actual (1st/2nd-wave) ska was fantastic, for a number of years. I hated them so, so much as a teenager.
I caught myself listening to something that should probably go into this thread:
Front Line Assembly.
Sometimes all you - or rather, I - want is a fat beat a bassline and a storm of samples and electronic bleeps etc and their album, the only one I presently own, Tactical Neural Implant provides that.
I tried to like their later guitar stuff but it was too slick and I have metal/grind/punk stuff that did the same thing except with less electronic garnish: it seemed a bit mercenary too coming after Ministry and Nine Inch Nails' commercial success. So I sold those ones. I haven't heard anything earlier by them.
I actually love a lot of that old 2nd wave US "industrial" stuff: the repetitive beats, the samples, bleeps etc...
Front Line Assembly.
Sometimes all you - or rather, I - want is a fat beat a bassline and a storm of samples and electronic bleeps etc and their album, the only one I presently own, Tactical Neural Implant provides that.
I tried to like their later guitar stuff but it was too slick and I have metal/grind/punk stuff that did the same thing except with less electronic garnish: it seemed a bit mercenary too coming after Ministry and Nine Inch Nails' commercial success. So I sold those ones. I haven't heard anything earlier by them.
I actually love a lot of that old 2nd wave US "industrial" stuff: the repetitive beats, the samples, bleeps etc...
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hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
Good choice, that's pretty much their masterpiece. If anyone think there's something guilty about that they're obviously just snobs. Sure, it have aged (those vocals), but it' still absolutely great!
The Initial Command is the one to get, has a much more minimal feel and less vocals, sounds like proto belgian rave.
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
looks like Sick Boy needs to read this:
http://thesameriver.blogspot.com/2006/08/against-subjectivity.html
Leo
Well-known member
i've always had a secret thing for...lenny kravitz!
i know, i know, it's the most bogus, derivative, shallow crap, but a cd containing only his big-riff rock songs makes for a fun time and great air guitar tutorial. the ballads are TRUE crap which i can't even listen to, though.
i know, i know, it's the most bogus, derivative, shallow crap, but a cd containing only his big-riff rock songs makes for a fun time and great air guitar tutorial. the ballads are TRUE crap which i can't even listen to, though.
I can't help but find it somehow ironic that, in arguing the case for objectivity, you've referred Sick Boy (and, by extension, us) to a piece written by yourself.
so by this you mean...
that all conversations about art are pointless because it's all personal likes and dislikes? that anything anyone ever makes, whether a lewd drawing in a public restroom or the Sistine Chapel, should be equally valued?
I’m not sure what you mean by “should”.
I believe you are right that there is a deeply agreed upon standard of what defines “quality”, it’s just that some people may have no regard for this in their personal tastes. It’s just a fact. There is someone out there that hates paintings by Rembrandt... maybe he is a crazy fool, but in HIS eyes it doesn’t matter. That proves that, for each individual at least, it is all subjective. Or am I missing something.
Quality or value is determined when enough people agree on it. It’s not inherent in anything.
Can't speak for Troy, obviously - altho I see nothing in any of his responses to indicate that he hasn't. I certainly gave it a go...
... but it was was about as much reactionary twaddle as I could bear. All you've done is outline the qualities that you look for - and very admirable qualities they are too, as far as they go - and then declare them to form the basis of a good working - objective - definition of art; presumably by virtue of the fact that you believe it to be so.
Well, cheers. That settles it then... If that's not a self-reinforcing argument, I don't know what is.
To top it all, you go on to undermine your entire argument:
And all of this in a thread about guilty pleasures! About things you like even tho you know (subjectively or objectively) that you shouldn't! That you started!
Oh, and in case you couldn't tell... I'm with Wilhelm Worringer: "Aesthetic enjoyment is objectified enjoyment of self." It sounds better in German, but you get the gist
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throughsilver
Well-known member
My issue with that blog post is the wording:
If, say, I looked at a slab of concrete and said 'this is concrete', that would be true and discourse would either be pointless or overly pedantic. Saying about Prince's Parade album 'this is the greatest thing he did' is entirely subjective and up for (hopefully stimulating) discussion.
My stance is that if someone thinks Vengaboys are better than LaMonte, fine. I'd just be intrigued as to what the motivation for such a thought would be. I have no problem with artistic opinions, as long as they're backed up with reason.
Also, I like the juxtaposition of Intro To Philosophy with the subsequent cultural willy-waving. [j/k]
Of course not, but they could be equally valued, depending on the individual in question. I think the sheer fact that music is subjective is the precise reason why discourse should exist.
If, say, I looked at a slab of concrete and said 'this is concrete', that would be true and discourse would either be pointless or overly pedantic. Saying about Prince's Parade album 'this is the greatest thing he did' is entirely subjective and up for (hopefully stimulating) discussion.
My stance is that if someone thinks Vengaboys are better than LaMonte, fine. I'd just be intrigued as to what the motivation for such a thought would be. I have no problem with artistic opinions, as long as they're backed up with reason.
Also, I like the juxtaposition of Intro To Philosophy with the subsequent cultural willy-waving. [j/k]
I suppose you people couldn't be bothered with copy and pasting your (much valued) ideas in the comments on the blog?
it's just that my friend Mynaah, poor Mynaah, has been single handedly fighting me the aesthetic fascist and my evil co-horts all by her self and I'm sure she would love to have a few comrads by her side. and there are a few others invested in the debate as well...
I guess I can do it myself like "this is from so and so:" but wouldn't be as cool as seeing your names...
it's just that my friend Mynaah, poor Mynaah, has been single handedly fighting me the aesthetic fascist and my evil co-horts all by her self and I'm sure she would love to have a few comrads by her side. and there are a few others invested in the debate as well...
I guess I can do it myself like "this is from so and so:" but wouldn't be as cool as seeing your names...
throughsilver
Well-known member
... or Mynaah could come over here to Dissensusworld?
I sure hope we find alien life up there on Mars. Maybe they could help settle debates like this (involving universal truths). Or at least offer another opinion. But if they say that Mozart is better art than Teenage Fanclub then there's gonna be a war!
I sure hope we find alien life up there on Mars. Maybe they could help settle debates like this (involving universal truths). Or at least offer another opinion. But if they say that Mozart is better art than Teenage Fanclub then there's gonna be a war!
right... quality of the noodles, flavor of the sauce, freshness of vegetables - these are my personal criteria for judging pasta, shared by no one else.
and production, flow, lyricism, beats - these are things I personally pay attention to when judging a hiphop track - and no one else does.
and I wish to impose these purely subjective set of standards on the universe! I'm basically like Joseph Stalin!