The Wire on Dubstep
- Thread starter Woebot
- Start date
bassnation said:
devisive inverted snobby horse shit, there is good music in all genres anyway no one uses the term idm anymore.
you think afx etc aren't chin deep in street music, its not made in the street anyway it's made in studios.
anyway the thing that annoys me about the boxcutter record isn't that it's got overfussy programming as this is simply a lazy cliched myth it's actualy too clunky and lumpen.
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Interesting question- asides from Simon's Grime piece (last year?) and Woebot's Dirty Canvas review a while back, The Wire does appear to have ignored a vast area of music and extremely well-developed commentary. Is this because it is as well-developed as it is that they feel no need to cover it themselves, that the ready availability of blog based reporting here vitiates against the need for them to cover it in print>? Or is it that writers have failed to come forward to ask for pieces in the magazine? Or that their readership , just like Rob Young, are essentially uninterested in the avant-yobbo side of things? Or plain old elitism?
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
mms said:
Well said fella, what a load of shite Bassnation - WTF is street music?
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
Blackdown said:
Not really...
Blackdown said:
what's the matter, martin - did they turn u down again?
but seriously - who needs the fuckin wire? we all do alright between us, don't we?
subvert47
I don't fight, I run away
WOEBOT said:
I don't see that personally. Adoption is the nature of The Wire. Rather than being staffed by "I was there from the beginning" crew, it's a magazine of back cataloguers: people who wait to see how things pan out, whether it's worth writing about, and if so what parts are worth writing about. Now they've decided dubstep is worth it. And Boxcutter and Burial seems pretty good music to write about I think.
Tate said:
idm is a pretty out of date and outmoded idea really - i mean no one apart from people who write scant blanket accusing generalisations have used it in years - as for people who do non street electronics that have a touch of garage (for what it's worth) better examples are akufen, soft pink truth, herbert, luomo, junior boys, prefuse 73 etc rather than searching for some semblance in autechre as it's pretty untraceable i think, why do these bizare oppositions have to be made anyway, what makes one music more authentic because of assumptions about the class of the person making it, this is a funny old idea.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
Nick Gutterbreakz said:what's the matter, martin - did they turn u down again?
Turned me down for what?
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mms said:
For me it was always the fascination of a renegade science practisced in, essentialy, working class bedroom stuios all over the country...some of the most abstract music constructed within the boundries of the dancefloor, preserving the 4/4 pulse etc. That marriage of form and function. Its less about authenticity, more about the difference between first order and second order meta or ironic musical statements - which is what I always felt 'idm' was a little bit.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
Logos said:
Right, I get it now
It's a slow weekend at Dust Towers...
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Logos said:
yeah most idm,when that term sprung up i e early aphex, black dog, all them artificial intelligence comp types , richie hawtin second gen detroit techno did this and i think alot of the artists are working or lower middle class not that that makes a difference to the quality of the music, and alot of it was very amazing and transformative.
i think alot of people went onto please themselves really,and alot of them do function and form in way that rocks dancefloors or does whatever it needs to do to peoples brains and bodies that's more or less why they are popular.
But there is a hell of alot of this stuff nowdays which is just people doing tracks with absolutley no purpose, no real reason, not really wanting anything out of their practice, not having any real idea of an audience or wanting to build an audience simply because they can and i think this is where it's gone wrong. There are alot of problems with this, esp as people simply replicate the stuff from 1993/4 or just try and get on making really zany noisy music, in alienation from a scene as such. In one sense i have great admiration for people like dj scud for their focus and integrity within the breakcore sound and also stopping when he say the shit tsnami coming. There are also people who've been doing it for so long now that its kinda slipped into an apathetic cynism, i think people like luke vibert a few years ago were really really creating some incredible music, but right now i can't say that about what he does, he needs to change his cue.
There is also incredible music made by non working class british kids or whatever that doesn't fit into hardcore thing but probably ironically fits into the original description of idm.
meta ironical statements i see coming out of some of the us artists relationship to english/european dance music, tigerbeat etc , this is simply because of a kind of punk background, and the fact that they have no ties to this culture and kind of respectfully admire/misunderstand/take their own ideas into it. Some of this stuff annoys me though as it's not really very good or memorable music .This is also the case with american audiences who s gateway into electronic dance music is 'come to daddy' they don't rave even if you are playing shut up and dance.
i think it's the idea that somewhere along the line there is leeching going on or irony gets me, when i think this is an integral aspect of the idea of dance music being a global culture and these things are an inevitablilty as music mutates and replicates, this is an entirely welcome thing i think and its the basis of any worldwide global music scene. Everyone knows that rubbish gets forgotten about anyway.
i think this fucking northern soul aspect that's crept into people's attitudes to dance music is pretty ugly and worthless as well. i refuse to live in this kind of backward looking 'everything was simpler and great back then we had ours they had theirs' circle of shit.
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Re: Chiastic Slide and UK Garage, I am unsure as to whether this is a case Autechre pre-empting certain garage sonics, but I think particularly the string pizzicatos used and the way they were used could be directly compared with those on Dizzee's "Jezebel" especially, but also other mid-period grime and earlier pop-garage stuff too... notably used on "Cichli" and "Hub" probably elsewhere... its not a major thing, just something that I remembered noting at the time. In terms of non-"Street" artists using rhythmical ideas from the avant-yob spectrum, is this process of gentrification (although sometimes the "gentrified" versions are more extreme than the originals, or take some basic principles of the beat and cartoonise it) not one of the most common threads that runs throughout mid 20th Century to present day popular music?
OK: To return to the previous question, who in the blog-mos has put forward a proposal for a grime/dubstep piece in the last few years to the Wire editorial staff and had it turned down? And for what reason?
OK: To return to the previous question, who in the blog-mos has put forward a proposal for a grime/dubstep piece in the last few years to the Wire editorial staff and had it turned down? And for what reason?
gek-opel said:
surely this is similar to what overall the street does to itself, happy hardcores relationship to rave and later jungle is exactly like this, as are things like euphoric trance to an extent, over the course of time even drum and bass has done this or done things as a relection of the way trance has taken over the provincial towns etc, it's not something you could call gentrification though, esp happy hardcore in scotland etc, tartan techno etc, probably has more to do with what else is hot, what people want out of the feelings of e etc and what's going on with peoples pleasure receptors etc. Also one of the biggest dance hits of the 90's higher state of conciousness is almost a totally non ironic eseessive parody of acid.
i think more than anything around the mid 90s boutique labels like mo wax and the big trousered instrumental hip hop lot made a lot stronger case for responsibility for the gentrification of dance music, as well as some of the drum and bass stuff itself, people like bukem etc, (even though i enjoyed some of his early sets) rather than someone like squarepusher, who seems to be doing stuff for different reasons and is rarely parodic/ironic anyway and then its for cheap laffs and quite joyous.
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