The Wire on Dubstep

[bun-u]

I suppose what was good about the Wire in the mid-nineties was that it didn't have such a defined "demographic". It didn't have what is has now where you could describe a night/a shop or a radio show/station (Resonance) as Wire-readery. It's the definition of and pandering to 'the demographic' which usually spells the end for (almongst other things) a magazine. It stops being an artefact and becomes instead a product

 

[noel emits]

Of course you could describe Resonance as 'Wire-readery' but that's really not fair on Resonance is it?

The Wire was pretty big on Trip-Hop/D&B/90s 'tronica at one point wasn't it? I can see how they might have consciously backed away as those 'scenes' started codifying/degenerating and becoming generally less vital as sources of musical interest. It's understandable really. Just taken them a while to have a peak over the wall again.

 

[gek-opel]

It also appears to be a little bit clueless, (which probably comes with such demographic pandering)-- no real sense of editorial direction. What would be good would be a return to the early 90s think-pieces, stuff that tries to set an agenda, rather than just giving people what they already like... which is a disgraceful trend that cuts across from magazines to tv to i-pods, any kind of content is now funnelled to avoid "noise" ie- signals the consumer doesn't already want to receive.

@Verinder/Marcello: That's pretty disgraceful, but not uncommon right? Bit much to blacklist you tho...

 

[mms]

rather than just giving people what they already like... which is a disgraceful trend that cuts across from magazines to tv to i-pods, any kind of content is now funnelled to avoid "noise" ie- signals the consumer doesn't already want to receive.

were talking about this today - the way music might be bought in the future - the potential end of albums etc and the immediate feedback loop provided between digital music providers and 'clients' is a terrifying prospect, leaving no space to intimate that people's quick decisions might be wrong. BUT its a tricky one as kids nowdays have immediate access to more music than ever before so who's saying they aren't growing up thru music incrediby quickly and real dedicated music fans will absorb and cut to the chase quicker than before. it also seems to me that approx nothing has changed in 10 years regarding underground music scenes/ retro indie kids, maybe everything is just slightly smaller or not on vinyl cd anymore but absolutley 0 has changed.

 

[Grievous Angel]

I suppose what was good about the Wire in the mid-nineties was that it didn't have such a defined "demographic". It didn't have what is has now where you could describe a night/a shop or a radio show/station (Resonance) as Wire-readery. It's the definition of and pandering to 'the demographic' which usually spells the end for (almongst other things) a magazine. It stops being an artefact and becomes instead a product

I think all magazines need to have a well defined audience to succeed and survive. That's just common sense.

However, I think that "pandering to a demographic" as Gek puts it is one of the absolute cardinal sins of marketing. It really gets on my tits from a strategy view point. You have to strike a balance between "giving the people what they want" and challenging your audience and it's very hard to get it right. I think the Wire has tried to do that with things like the RIFFS special edition but that was a little bit facile. Gek's right to suggest that what would enhance the distinctive offer of the Wire, confer value to its readers, and help build its audience would be "a return to the early 90s think-pieces, stuff that tries to set an agenda, rather than just giving people what they already like". As I've said elsewhere I think there's a legion of under-served intelligent music fans who spend serious wedge on music who want some brain food beyond the forums and things like Pitchfork; magazines = a different usage occasion from PCs, innit.

But I don't know whether the Wire can get there. It can't (and arguably shouldn't even want to) jettission its jazz / art crowd, but probably can't stretch its editorial scope much further than it already does without alienating its core audience and advertisers.

What I'd like to see is a re-launch (possibly with another publisher - Development Hell anyone?), with Reynolds installed as editor, a phalanx of worthies from Dissensus and the blogosphere added to the roster (Penman OF COURSE, Carlin, Ingrams, Stelfox naturally, Eden, K9... you get the picture) and some film and book coverage (steal some audience from Word and Sight and Sound). I think it already has the pagination to cover it, it just needs to do it a bit better. It would probably need its own online presence including forum to pick up sufficient ad revenue... and I wouldn't fancy writing the business plan in today's climate.

 

[Landfill Elektronikz]

^^why don't you just put together a nice little zeroxed fanzine...something wiv a bit of soul. i'd buy it!

...preferably with free cassette comp (again, with zeroxed insert) sellotaped on front. later on you could move up to A4 two-colour print with free 7" single. god...the humanity...somebody do it please...

 

[wonk_vitesse]

blimey this has really touched a raw nerve in the dissensian consciousness. The wire were always gonna do a dubstep frontpage, get over it, what annoys me is as everyone has said, who they picked and perhaps how late they did it. Considering they have a massive musical range it's perhaps not suprising the slow coverage. That said, Rob Young editorial is deeply disturbing as others have elaborated on.

Do the wire really have anyone in touch with the contemporary beats scene, that's my question? Simon lives in NYC, Philip Sheburne in Berlin or somewhere and Steve Barker has his own agenda. Can someone enlighten me. Faint plug, anyone at 'Kick up the Riddim' last friday will know what i mean!

 

[Rachel Verinder]

What I'd like to see is a re-launch (possibly with another publisher - Development Hell anyone?), with Reynolds installed as editor, a phalanx of worthies from Dissensus and the blogosphere added to the roster (Penman OF COURSE, Carlin, Ingrams, Stelfox naturally, Eden, K9... you get the picture)

You might get me back on there if Sinker were reinstalled as editor, but not with Reynolds - alas, we fell out some while ago.

I look at the Wire these days (and only in the newsagents) and find it hard to determine any demographic. What does it actually stand for? What's it supposed to represent? It's nearly impossible to tell, apart from Sundry People Whom Q/Mojo/Uncut Won't Touch With A Bargepole. That's what they need to sort out. That brand management issue again...

But then again they could reasonably turn around and say: well all those major thinkpieces you want are on the web, the bloggers have cornered the "market," what do we need to run them for etc.

 

[stelfox]

blimey this has really touched a raw nerve in the dissensian consciousness. The wire were always gonna do a dubstep frontpage, get over it, what annoys me is as everyone has said, who they picked and perhaps how late they did it. Considering they have a massive musical range it's perhaps not suprising the slow coverage. That said, Rob Young editorial is deeply disturbing as others have elaborated on.

Do the wire really have anyone in touch with the contemporary beats scene, that's my question? Simon lives in NYC, Philip Sheburne in Berlin or somewhere and Steve Barker has his own agenda. Can someone enlighten me. Faint plug, anyone at 'Kick up the Riddim' last friday will know what i mean!

Phil lives in Barcelona, spends a ton of time in Berlin, Cologne and Paris, and half his life flying to far-flung places in order to be right at the nexus of his own particular area of "the contemporary beats scene" (whatever the hell that is). He's the best writer on techno in the world, bar none, and to infer that he's in any way out of touch with what he's doing is pretty bloody disingenuous. Anyway, do you have to live in a given place to be "in touch" with a certain type of music? Answer: no, of course you don't. If writers stuck to this rule Reynolds would have had to stop writing about British music when he moved to New York, you'd never have read anything by either Jess Harvell or Tim Finney, I'd never have written anything about dirty south rap, dancehall, reggae or any of the other stuff i find vaguely interesting and the whole rockwrite world would be a damned sight poorer for it. And why is that editorial "deeply disturbing"? It's not at all! God, talk about mountains and molehills.

 

[stelfox]

You might get me back on there if Sinker were reinstalled as editor, but not with Reynolds - alas, we fell out some while ago.

I look at the Wire these days (and only in the newsagents) and find it hard to determine any demographic. What does it actually stand for? What's it supposed to represent? It's nearly impossible to tell, apart from Sundry People Whom Q/Mojo/Uncut Won't Touch With A Bargepole. That's what they need to sort out. That brand management issue again...

But then again they could reasonably turn around and say: well all those major thinkpieces you want are on the web, the bloggers have cornered the "market," what do we need to run them for etc.

Hmmm, that's a debatable point as I really don't think blogs are the right medium for massive thinkpieces. You're one of the few who can do them properly, Marcello, but reading yours on screen makes my eyes virtually bleed and, not to detract from how much I've enjoyed them, I still think they'd still benefit from a light editorial touch now and again.
I know the ones I did really needed that outside eye before publication. The fact that they didn't get it means that most of them turned into elliptical rambles, with a few solid points nested within, rather than good linear pieces that really worked.
You get that in a magazine, but not in a DIY scenario. That's where print comes into its own: readability and the editorial input that can make a good piece great. Still, you don't get that at many publications now. In fact, one of the only people I rate as an editor in the UK is John Mulvey at Uncut, because he knows how to get the best out of people, but also when something doesn't need touching, which is just as important.

 

[Rachel Verinder]

Don't know about "getting the best out of people" - Mulvey just got me out of Uncut, full stop.
He was thoroughly un-nice to me so I can't share your enthusiasm.
About editing in general - well, the uncut (ahem) manuscript of the CoM book currently runs to 800+ pages and I think can be quite thoroughly edited without losing its essence (alas my editor is currently editing my manuscript at a rate of one page per month bless her but it is in hand...).

 

[stelfox]

heading into thread derailment here. drop me an email.

 

[Grievous Angel]

Yes, if only the blogosphere had subs...

 

[wonk_vitesse]

Phil lives in Barcelona, spends a ton of time in Berlin, Cologne and Paris, and half his life flying to far-flung places in order to be right at the nexus of his own particular area of "the contemporary beats scene" (whatever the hell that is). He's the best writer on techno in the world, bar none, and to infer that he's in any way out of touch with what he's doing is pretty bloody disingenuous. Anyway, do you have to live in a given place to be "in touch" with a certain type of music? Answer: no, of course you don't. If writers stuck to this rule Reynolds would have had to stop writing about British music when he moved to New York, you'd never have read anything by either Jess Harvell or Tim Finney, I'd never have written anything about dirty south rap, dancehall, reggae or any of the other stuff i find vaguely interesting and the whole rockwrite world would be a damned sight poorer for it. And why is that editorial "deeply disturbing"? It's not at all! God, talk about mountains and molehills.

"deeply disturbing" dunno why i wrote that? it just confirms a certain prejudice about UK dance music that 's all. I spose I'm making the point that they have a very post-rave view on dance music and alot of the most exciting stuff being made now is made by people who never went to a rave & were still at school when d'n'b went supposedly boring. A bit of younger blood perhaps on the writing team.

 

[gek-opel]

To follow up on what Stelfox was saying about big Phil S, he's also been reviewing a fair amount of the less overtly dubby dubstep recently, and appears to be getting into it. He even posted a frothing account of a plastician set on ILM, demanding a track ID...

 

[bun-u]

To follow up on what Stelfox was saying about big Phil S, he's also been reviewing a fair amount of the less overtly dubby dubstep recently, and appears to be getting into it. He even posted a frothing account of a plastician set on ILM, demanding a track ID...

All this while out-witting Sven for a third-time and taking Portugal to tonight's World Cup semi...this Gene Hackman lookalike has to be some kind of legend

 

[bassnation]

you think afx etc aren't chin deep in street music, its not made in the street anyway it's made in studios.

lol, well said.

anyway the thing that annoys me about the boxcutter record isn't that it's got overfussy programming as this is simply a lazy cliched myth it's actualy too clunky and lumpen.

ok, i'll accept that. just didn't really feel the album, thats all. it seems rather dense compared to burial, and i think its lacking as a result.

 

[gek-opel]

Its true the rhythmical chassis are frequently clumpy, however the overuse of edit fx, the equivalent of a technical metal guitar solo, abound as a means of making the frequently unpunchy water retention damaged backings come to life, albeit in a tired and predictable manner.

 

[gumdrops]

dubstep all stars vol 4 gets a very favourable review in the new wire.

 

[mms]

lol, well said.



ok, i'll accept that. just didn't really feel the album, thats all. it seems rather dense compared to burial, and i think its lacking as a result.

yeah i don't like all if it either, some of it is great, but at times the
problem is it's not dense like burial, ie layered - its just overegged too heavy.