one thing grime really needs IMO is to be marketed properly and thoroughly to its supposed core audience - people into urban music and well, the black community. not fucking trendies, hoxtonites, broadsheet readers, indie kids, etc etc etc. if that part of its audience isnt established properly, then i dont think it has much of a promising future cos it will be catering to a crowd totally different to the one its supposed to be speaking to. then again, i have a suspicion grime artists might not care and would happily take mainstream success in an instant over careful fanbase-building. i know there is a much smaller 'urban music' audience in the UK than in the US (there, you can sustain a good career without going pop from day one) but at least over there, they know how to build a fan base and make sure the black core base is established first before the crossover dreams begin. yeah you could argue grime does that already through pirates and things like that, but it needs to get something more solid in between that and its mainstream aspirations, esp as its following seems so small at the moment.
Finally: Now That's What I Call Vocal Grime
- Thread starter Blackdown
- Start date
I disagree entirely. I'm starting to think that grime should start to follow the dubstep template of business for a little while, until it can really find where it fits on a larger commercial level.
That is, it needs to:
1) Start throwing some high-profile, well-organized parties to start bringing some excitement back into the scene (a la FWD/DMZ)
2) Not excluding "trendies, hoxtonites, broadsheet readers (isn't this everybody?), indie kids" etc. out of their focus group. More diverse crowds at grime raves would not be a bad thing at all. It would mean both that grime would have a wider range of influence, and would have some good public relations effects at the same time.
3) Start to form independant businesses that support the scene. We need more labels. More good labels. A good part of how dubstep is moving so fast is how self-sufficient their are business-wise with labels like Hyperdub, Tempa and Hotflush Recordings. To an outside music-enthusiast, a "trendie", it also makes the genre far more appealing and exciting to see releases coming out on high-profile labels. The only label I can think that consistently puts out high quality stuff is A.R.M.Y.
everyone has been saying this for a while, and it's still true.
if someone were to start up a small label, put out like one 12" a month from all the white labels coming out, and 6 cd's a year (can we sort out the whole "album vs. mix tape" thing? and if they really are albums and not mixtapes, can we ask for better packaging? yunno, to look like a "real" cd?) i think they'd do fine.
there are plenty of people interested in grime who just don't know where to look. if there was a brand name, it would help. i know plenty of people who are dipping their feet in the water w/ dunstep and know to look for anything on Tempa...
the undisputed truth
Banned
What I find weird is how many hits the grime emcees get on their myspace pages as compared to the dubstep producers. It shows is that there is the groundswell of support for what they do but that doesn't seem to translate to sales.
Why is that ?
Why is that ?
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
The music isn't available to the kids who visit their pages in an affordable and easy to obtain package.
And thank you for the assistance Martin.
And thank you for the assistance Martin.
the undisputed truth
Banned
Just quietly Logan, I don't think cd's, trad record labels, the majors or mixtapes will provide your easily affordable, obtainable package. The fact that the kids have the technology to hit on their pages would suggest capitalising on an mp3 grime hub or onestop download shop pimped through myspace by all the major players.
Do you have public arts funding or something like that you can access under community arts development, youth mental health, that type of shit, with accompanying business model you could access to kickstart an mp3 site ?
Maybe even hook up with the new dubplate.net. They could probabaly use the stock as that is a pretty sad grime mp3 section they got. I'd maybe offer exclusive 4 trak ep's from solo artists accompanied by decent graphics packages to start with.
http://www.dubplate.net/Tunes.aspx?type=Grime&format=MP3
Do you have public arts funding or something like that you can access under community arts development, youth mental health, that type of shit, with accompanying business model you could access to kickstart an mp3 site ?
Maybe even hook up with the new dubplate.net. They could probabaly use the stock as that is a pretty sad grime mp3 section they got. I'd maybe offer exclusive 4 trak ep's from solo artists accompanied by decent graphics packages to start with.
http://www.dubplate.net/Tunes.aspx?type=Grime&format=MP3
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I don't believe any popular music in general will be worth anything as data in the very near future.
I do however believe that hard copy of music like CDs with proper artwork and vinyl give the creation a sentimental value which is unequatable to monetary terms.
I would always strive to give something someone can actually hold and keep and treasure, but I acknowledge that in terms of business, it is a redundant sentimentality.
Building up a strong underground loyal fanbase though, I think it is very important, because sentimentality is what gets your foot in the door, and gets people spending their money on you when they dont have to.
I do however believe that hard copy of music like CDs with proper artwork and vinyl give the creation a sentimental value which is unequatable to monetary terms.
I would always strive to give something someone can actually hold and keep and treasure, but I acknowledge that in terms of business, it is a redundant sentimentality.
Building up a strong underground loyal fanbase though, I think it is very important, because sentimentality is what gets your foot in the door, and gets people spending their money on you when they dont have to.
the undisputed truth
Banned
I suppose it depends what you're selling ? A shiny disc and some glossy paper or music.
I'm not that sentimental about stuff but I do get sentimental over tunes that made an impact on me in the past and am not really hung up on the delivery mechanism whether it be radio, video, cd, vinyl, mp3...etc
Loyalty in the music industry equates to only being as good as your last gig or tune. As soon as you fall off it's next cab off the rank please.
Staying ahead of the game is the key IMHO and right now the game is looking to take it's cues from the underground and the youth simply because it has lost control of it's product and market.
Major labels are slashing and burning rosters left right and centre and kids these days have no concept of sentimentality or loyalty. I doubt they even know what it means and half of them probably couldn't even spell it but I bet they know how to google >>free mp3download*enter artist name here* then rip it to their phone, ipod or equivalent. You'd have a hard time trying to convince my kids to buy a CD for sentimental value. They don't even have a cd discman and when old enough to drive probably won't even have a cd player in the car either.
What they need to understand is 'quality' so they can pay for it and appreciate the difference. Besides discs don't last but even the shit tunes will be floating in cyberspace forever.
How is it that Lily Allen, Cassie, Arctic Monkeys and Sandi Thom can credit myspace for launching their careers yet the majors wont fund popular grime artists with equally as impressive support, is beyond me? Maybe it's not about the money.
I'm not that sentimental about stuff but I do get sentimental over tunes that made an impact on me in the past and am not really hung up on the delivery mechanism whether it be radio, video, cd, vinyl, mp3...etc
Loyalty in the music industry equates to only being as good as your last gig or tune. As soon as you fall off it's next cab off the rank please.
Staying ahead of the game is the key IMHO and right now the game is looking to take it's cues from the underground and the youth simply because it has lost control of it's product and market.
Major labels are slashing and burning rosters left right and centre and kids these days have no concept of sentimentality or loyalty. I doubt they even know what it means and half of them probably couldn't even spell it but I bet they know how to google >>free mp3download*enter artist name here* then rip it to their phone, ipod or equivalent. You'd have a hard time trying to convince my kids to buy a CD for sentimental value. They don't even have a cd discman and when old enough to drive probably won't even have a cd player in the car either.
What they need to understand is 'quality' so they can pay for it and appreciate the difference. Besides discs don't last but even the shit tunes will be floating in cyberspace forever.
How is it that Lily Allen, Cassie, Arctic Monkeys and Sandi Thom can credit myspace for launching their careers yet the majors wont fund popular grime artists with equally as impressive support, is beyond me? Maybe it's not about the money.
DJ Lioness
Well-known member
Possibly because you'd have an easier time obtaining Osama Bin Laden's mobile phone number and getting him to organise a huge explosion that would take out half of London, than you would getting a member of the Grime fraternity to reply to a message on MySpace or an email.
cos lilly allen, arctic monkeys, etc etc arent young black artists making angry hard music. the british music industry doesnt want to hear that sort of thing, esp in 2006. if grime was actually proving to be a bit more lucrative, and looked like it might be a bit of a money spinner, ie if they had something that showed there was a decent sized market ready and waiting for it, then that probably wouldnt bother them as they just want to make money, but its not doing that so theres no reason for them to take interest. theres people like divine comedy who dont make much back for their labels (or so id imagine) but cos theres people into that sort of thing at his label who believe in him and know and like that sort of music, he gets to still keep his contract and make albums of sheer wretchedness. with grime though, cos i cant imagine anyone in A&R depts really being up on it or understanding it, i doubt theres many grime artists who would get the same chance. not these days anyway. most A&Rs just want to keep their jobs so grime would be too risky and most of them just want stuff that has mass appeal, not something that might take a bit of building. this has all been discussed before on this board though so nothing new to report. the situation hasnt changed in the last year, and as there dont seem to be many mid-level indies like there used to be when you had 4th and broadway or whoever, i doubt its going to improve.
i dont think the whole myspace number of friends really counts for that much, the whole process of adding people is a bit superficial and doesnt really count for much IMHO.
because they spend all their money on PRs to perpetuate the 'myspace discovery' myth.
this is more or less true, myspace is next to useless apart from the bulletin and if you are unsigned etc getting a few people to hear tracks, most of the work is gone on bread and butter pr and advertising, alot of it strangley geared to wards perpetuating how grassroots the campaign is cos of carefully organised small gigs and 'how many friends on myspace' a person has, when in fact anyone with nothing to offer can get squillions of friends on myspace if they have the time.
i go on it so i can pretend famous people i've never met, live or dead are my pals.
well from what i get off urban music fans a few of the tunes cross over, a few people into uk hip hop/ r and b etc are into some of it, but it's too extreme too centred on maleish aggro and beef, gun talk and shanking to really appeal to load of people, it wasn't always like this, the artists who have crossed over well did tunes like girls love boys and i luv you, hype hype as well as pow etc..
it's not really a surprise that core audiences might be moving away from grime to stuff more fun and friendly, it's relief from the violent male aggression, the constant threats over the mic etc, life isn't constantly like that for most people and most people would prefer it to not be like that.
I’m just an old man living in the US.
I bought The Streets’ Original Pirate Material after reading all the press over here. Frankly, it blew my mind. Then I bought Dizzee’s albums and it blew my mind as well. I had never heard that kind of raw, inventive ‘techno’ before.
I sure was hoping this ‘grime’ thing would take off so I get more of these fresh sounds, but to be honest I can’t find any of it nowadays. I prefer buying cd’s but I don’t even know where I can download it, and I’m pretty good at ‘google-ing’.
http://www.littlebig.org.uk/
Grime, Dubstep, IDM, etc... different battallions in the same army. Marching forward.
Is this the way for Grime to go?
Grime, Dubstep, IDM, etc... different battallions in the same army. Marching forward.
Is this the way for Grime to go?
hang on littlebig is a promoter not a label and deals with quite a small range of stuff, mostly on warp/rephlex/planet mu etc that he hand picks, so don't really know how it'll really help putting out music.
i think this is true and this is why blank white label 12"s and homemade photoshop mix CD's don't cut it... you're not giving people enough excuse to pay money rather than download.