R&B/soul - breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

[baboon2004]

im going to have to hear the tori version again. in the meantime, i wonder if the PCD version hadnt become such a hit, if everyones views that its the inferior version would be the same.

Fair enough to wonder, but in my view that doesn't apply here. Loads of huge RnB hits haven't been similarly criticised (anything by JT or Christina etc etc).

 

[gumdrops]

thats true. but the diff here is that the other big hits didnt have a backstory of small time, obscure singer records song that becomes huge global hit for pissed up clubbers and city bods to get overconfident to (ref mms) to go with them, never mind audio of the demos to compare with the more popular version.

 

[baboon2004]

thats true. but the diff here is that the other big hits didnt have a backstory of small time, obscure singer records song that becomes huge global hit for pissed up clubbers and city bods to get overconfident to (ref mms) to go with them, never mind audio of the demos to compare with the more popular version.

Fair point. Trying to think of a counterexample, but it'll take time....

 

[mms]

thats true. but the diff here is that the other big hits didnt have a backstory of small time, obscure singer records song that becomes huge global hit for pissed up clubbers and city bods to get overconfident to (ref mms) to go with them, never mind audio of the demos to compare with the more popular version.

she wasn't that small, the record came out on universal , she had a bit of press cos she sung for outcast, big album plans, i thought when i heard it she'd be a female d'angelo or something, that otherworldly princey vibe too, i heard it b4 the pussycat dolls version, and i own the 12".

it was cee-lo too, from goodie mobb who wrote it .. he seems to have gone on to do well for himself too eh?
imagine if he wasn't a great big guy, again the hovering princey thing, making the link back, wasn't the lead singer of the pussycat girls carmen electra a prince girlfriend/paisley park artist?
i saw her live once supporting him..

 

[Guybrush]

I can understand (just) your feeling that Tori didn't have enough charisma to carry the song, but the production is so unarguably (well, obviously not ) superior on the Alamaze version (as well as being one of the finest non-Timbaland, non-Jerkins, non-Neptunes, non-Tim 'n' Bob RnB productions I've heard - who did it?) that I'm staggered.

But the two backing-tracks are almost identical. That is, the PCD backing-track is the same one as the Alamaze one except for a few sounds being panorated slightly differently and, crucially, the vocal being MUCH higher in the mix (all for the better imo).

 

[mms]

But the two backing-tracks are almost identical. That is, the PCD backing-track is the same one as the Alamaze one except for a few sounds being panorated slightly differently and, crucially, the vocal being MUCH higher in the mix (all for the better imo).

are you sure?
i think there are a some more analogue sounds in the alamaze version, the drums, and the keyboard are more analogue, its a lot slower too. the only thing kept in the mix is the scratching effect no? also her voice is alot more naked, with just a few moments where its double tracked in a question/answer way.

 

[hint]

thats true. but the diff here is that the other big hits didnt have a backstory of small time, obscure singer records song that becomes huge global hit for pissed up clubbers and city bods to get overconfident to (ref mms) to go with them, never mind audio of the demos to compare with the more popular version.

I think what's interesting about the case of Don'tCha is the fact that the versions are so similar. As mms points out, Tori Alamaze's version came out on Universal, it was always a great song, the production was always fresh... on paper it should have been huge, since this is what we like to believe matters -> label with money / connections + strong song + strong production = hit.

What's generally accepted is that the original version was buried because the label saw no future for a more "mature" pop r'n'b singer. Leaving aside whether or not you think the PCD version is a better performance of the song, it's pretty clear that the success of their version had absolutely nothing to do with whatever went on in the studio.

I don't necessarily dislike the PCD version, but the absence of a rubbish Busta guest spot and the absence of a rubbish brass riff means that I listen to and enjoy the Tori Alamaze version more.

 

[tate]

I don't necessarily dislike the PCD version, but the absence of a rubbish Busta guest spot and the absence of a rubbish brass riff means that I listen to and enjoy the Tori Alamaze version more.

Yes, exactly. The horns in the PCD version are jank.

 

[Guybrush]

I stand corrected, there actually are differences (the brass riff and also a superfluous guitar during the "I ain't lying"-break are extra additions on the PCD version). The backing-track is the same on both tracks though, you be your own judge:

Pussycat Dolls - Don't Cha (sans Busta)
Tori Alamaze - Don't Cha

I like how these two versions have different characters: Pussycat Dolls' version is, as has been rightly pointed out, "'look at my tits' workout stuff, that's for drunk city workers to feel overconfident too on a friday night.", but I quite like it as such; the Tori Alamaze version is creepier and much more sinister.

 

[the undisputed truth]

Really feeling Ryan Leslie of late. Not only the Cassie stuff but his own. That 'used to be' tune with Fabolous smokes Timbaland /JT's 'my love' effort and thats saying something.

So I was wondering surely the big name r'n'b hip-pop producers must check out dance music trends and by now would have at least heard of dubstep and dug around to see what's up. Reason being that halfstep beat on 'my love' is classic dubstep inspired and with the ravey trance like keys there really isn't much american sounding about it.

 

[mms]

I stand corrected, there actually are differences (the brass riff and also a superfluous guitar during the "I ain't lying"-break are extra additions on the PCD version). The backing-track is the same on both tracks though, you be your own judge:

Pussycat Dolls - Don't Cha (sans Busta)
Tori Alamaze - Don't Cha

I like how these two versions have different characters: Pussycat Dolls' version is, as has been rightly pointed out, "'look at my tits' workout stuff, that's for drunk city workers to feel overconfident too on a friday night.", but I quite like it as such; the Tori Alamaze version is creepier and much more sinister.

its funny isn't it, i was wrong about the speed but the drums have been amped up a bit, there is more guitar throughout, strings and yep, now i can hear it after hearing gnarls barkley, thats def cee-lo doing a falsetto backing throughout i think.
that scratch is weird as anywhere else, that kinda scratching would be shit..

 

[Eric]

I love the Tom Ze sample on Amerie *Take Control*---wonder how that came about.

 

[gumdrops]

ok, listening to that audio - the tori version has a good, strong, more 'mature' vocal (kinda like syleena johnson or someone) but really, it sounds like a low/medium budget demo. the production is very airy and sounds like all the midi keyboards were recorded straight to tape (that middle spoken word part is great though - id take that over bustas shitty rap any day, although there is a rap-less version on the PCD cd single). the PCD version at least sounds finished.

yeah its true that urban radio/A&R depts in the US arent too into older sounding voices at the moment, they prefer female singers that sound like teen nymphettes - but nicole from PCD sounds a hell of a lot more mature and fiercer than the likes of ashanti, christina milian, and cassie and ciara.

eg -

 

[michael]

So I was wondering surely the big name r'n'b hip-pop producers must check out dance music trends and by now would have at least heard of dubstep and dug around to see what's up. Reason being that halfstep beat on 'my love' is classic dubstep inspired and with the ravey trance like keys there really isn't much american sounding about it.

Slowed down beats with a few bits that hint at double-time are what had people quizzing Timbaland about d'n'b influence years before the second gen, de-garaged dubstep came about.

 

[Guybrush]

Really feeling Ryan Leslie of late. Not only the Cassie stuff but his own. That 'used to be' tune with Fabolous smokes Timbaland /JT's 'my love' effort and thats saying something.

It's a nice song but the production's not very groundbreaking or futuristic, is it (smacking of Grandmaster Flash's "The Message", I think)? Ryan Leslie is very talented though.

 

[elgato]

So I was wondering surely the big name r'n'b hip-pop producers must check out dance music trends and by now would have at least heard of dubstep and dug around to see what's up. Reason being that halfstep beat on 'my love' is classic dubstep inspired and with the ravey trance like keys there really isn't much american sounding about it.

is it not fair to say that 2step garage and therefore dubstep would never have taken the path it did were it not for timberland? ive always seen him as a key influence to the way that strain has developed, but i might be wrong...

its a bit like if dem2 made a micro-house sounding record!

the arpeggiated synth puts me more in mind of classical than rave or trance, but i dont know my old-school

i really, really love that track, its elegant, beautiful, uplifting, soulful, but completely accessible... surely a modern pop classic if ever there was one

 

[the undisputed truth]

For all his protestations about not bewing influneced by d'n'b i still think Timbaland is a liar. With regards to 2step/garage developing without him. It was pretty much developed out of the US mid west house/techno scene before Tim ever got around to using the characteristic twitchy 2 step stutter. Likewise with dubstep now, I think he sees the wave coming falls in behind it, catches up then overtakes it in his own very much imitated style yet disavows any direct influence.

The Ryan Leslie song is just a good song about first/lost love that doesn't fall into the angsty confessional type or gushing broken arse ballad. I particularly love the vocal interplays in the chorus and really who doesn't like reminiscing about their first love and wondering what if ?

Admittedly it's not ground breaking but it does follow in the tradition of lite bubblegum hip-pop/r'n'b that i've always been pre disposed to. Refreshing that for once though it isnt some prefectly packaged young female. Duke has talent that's for sure. I just hope he continues in the tradition of Teddy Riley, Jam and Lewis and LA and Babyface though and not that of Timbaland, Diddy, J-DuPri or Pharell with their r'n'b/hiphop crossover thing.

 

[Guybrush]

This thread would benefit from more Dissensians having access to new releases, so without further ado:

R&B Blogs

There are umpty hundreds of r&b oriented mp3-blogs out there. They are mostly run by obnoxious acknowledgement-seeking high school kids (as are most illegal sites I guess), but they are a great way of staying in touch with the commercial end of new r&b releases (or leaks). Naturally, some blogs gets the new stuff a little bit earlier than others, but that is not something you have to worry about: the lag is often less than a day for any given track (funnily, the site owners take great pride in them posting a specific tune TWO WHOLE HOURS before anybody else -- ah, the hollowing of exclusiveness). I have no idea why the record labels aren't clamping down on these sites. It could of course be that the number of visitors to these sites isn't as numerous as I imagine, but more likely it's some form of ineptitude/bureaucraticness combo; that is to say: Enjoy them while they are here. The two blogs linked to below are among the best of the bunch imho:

Beauty and the Beast
Angel's Hotspot

 

[elgato]

For all his protestations about not bewing influneced by d'n'b i still think Timbaland is a liar. With regards to 2step/garage developing without him. It was pretty much developed out of the US mid west house/techno scene before Tim ever got around to using the characteristic twitchy 2 step stutter. Likewise with dubstep now, I think he sees the wave coming falls in behind it, catches up then overtakes it in his own very much imitated style yet disavows any direct influence.

im very very far from an expert, but while obviously garage originated in the us, it underwent some serious change to spawn the various strains of 2step, and it was my understanding that timberland was cited as an influence on a number of top 2step producers, although as i say i might be very much incorrect

on a different point, has anyone heard the new beyonce tune? dirty girl i think its called. the verse vocal is absolutely STUNNING. not yet keen on the beat nor the chorus, but it may well grow on me.

 

[Blackdown]

Has anyone heard the Cassie LP and is it any good?