What is 'street' in relation to music?

[Edward]

In Germany they call black music 'Black Music'.
I.e. a club will advertise that it plays 'Techno, House, Black Music', for example.

They can call it Black Music in germany cos there aren't many black people there. I went to the weirdest ragga/dancehall night in leipzig a few months ago, lots of white germans with dreadlocks talking in patois. if they tried it in most parts of london they would've got laughed at/threatened/who knows?
but there was no harm in it really.

in what way are techno and house not black music?
that's another whole can of worms...

i suppose the answer to the original question is "street" means whatever the person using it wants it to mean, you better ask them when they say it... and really if you divide music up into little chunks based on things that aren't directly to do with how it sounds, you're onto a loser as far as communicating anything useful goes.

 

[Chris]

i suppose the answer to the original question is "street" means whatever the person using it wants it to mean, you better ask them when they say it... and really if you divide music up into little chunks based on things that aren't directly to do with how it sounds, you're onto a loser as far as communicating anything useful goes.

Ummm... ok.

My list wasn't meant to be a definition of "street." A few people in this thread already touched on the way I'd define it, so I didn't feel like repeating them.

Of course there are more subjective nuances to people's definitions of "street" (including mine) than indicated in that very generalized list I made, but personally I'd imagine a lot of people who idealize and value the idea of "street" in music, probably lean towards one of those three stances, unless they want to be even more generalistic than I was and see it as simply meaning black and urban.

I was pointing out that within music that might be called "street", there seems to be three main approaches in which it might have different meanings. I could have spelled that point out in more detail, but I thought it was pretty self-evident. And I think that these categories do have something to do with the way the music sounds... the attitude and social bent of these approaches might influence not only the content of the lyrics, but the vibe and characteristics in the music. While this can be pulled off in various ways, there are still a lot of shared tropes and themes within each sub-genre. I could expand on that idea and give examples if you need me to...

 

[mistersloane]

Back in the days - and I'm talking the time before *house* music had been invented, going waaaaay back, I worked in Red Records in Brixton. After a while, sometime about 89 or 90, Phil, who took over the management, wanted to re-brand the shop, and he decided upon 'black music specialists', we talked about it alot. His argument was that it WAS all black music, whether you liked it or not; he was talkin origins-wise. I didn't disagree, and it's much better than urban imo.

Sorry Logan lol. I think I'd have a much harder time arguing about it nowadays but I still know what he meant, and means.

 

[Logan Sama]

The origins of Grime are in no way, shape or form Black.

They are from London. And last time I looked, London was a thriving multi-cultural, non-segregated place to live.

People rhyming on a beat? Yeh, that means it HAS to be black music.

And I'd appreciate if people who actually have no active part in the music didn't tell me, albeit using acronyms, to get the fuck outta here if I don't like it. I've been playing it on radio every week before it even had a name breaking my back carrying 3 stone record bags full of dubplates of it cut at £25 per plate with next to no reward financially for that investment. I personally find it insulting to completely remove all acknowledgement of the important multi-cultural influences that created Grime in the first place and just lump it under the "Black music" banner because most of the MCs you see are black.

Apologies for diverting the topic onto Grime, but I think it is important to recognise that in the UK we have had music for decades which has had a STRONG definite multi-cultural influence in creating our genres of choice, especially so in London. To white-wash out all other influences by labelling such music as UK Garage, Drum N Bass/Jungle, Grime and Dubstep as "Black Music" would be ludicrous. I find Street, and to a lesser extent, Urban to be acceptable terms when they include such music as those listed, because they are not exclusively of Black Origin. When speaking of just Hip Hop, Reggae and RnB I would find the term Urban or Street unnecessary.

 

[nomadologist]

Poisonous Dart and Chris are the only two in here who define "street" in the American sense. The rest are mostly so off I wonder what they're even talking about. "Urban" and "street" are not equivalent in the U.S. at all.

Gek-- I would definitely say that early garage rock and some American punk (I've heard the term "gutter punk" before) are considered gritty and tough in a generally urban way, but not in a definitive enough way to be able to label them "street."

Street is mostly a term that sprang up around gang/gangster culture in the America inner city (I might say around the very early 80s, and gaining ground during the Reagan administration and the introduction of crack to the ghetto) and usually used as an adjective that refers exclusively to music, pop culture, clothing, dancing, individuals, anything that exhibits the characteristics that are a direct result of having been raised in the kind of rough, economically oppressed conditions that are exclusive or particular to the ghetto (usually black ghettos, sometimes hispanic).

Reading this thread I now realize how entirely different--and infinitely worse--race relations as a result of the ghetto-ization of black Americans (and ultimately years and years of post-emancipation oppression) are in the U.S. compared to anywhere in Europe. It seems like our situation here bears no comparison, when I see the discussion of "urban" as a parallel to "street." In fact, it seems when I read this that maybe people from other cultures have no real way to contextualize hip-hop, even if they can pick up on the lyrical content in a literal way.

 

[nomadologist]

Of course there are more subjective nuances to people's definitions of "street" (including mine)

I don't know, in the U.S. it's a pretty clearly defined term, even if some people would disagree about individual examples of what could be called "street." Some suburban white kids might fancy themselves "street" because they wear Nike dunks and listen to hip-hop, but most observers in the U.S. would say that they're wearing "street" gear, but that they themselves aren't "street." That's the (not so) subtle distinction that's missing here.

Other than that, "street" has a very specific chain of signifiers/signified that make up the signs we read as such. To put it in Saussurean linguistic jargon. To put it more clearly, "street" is an adjective applied to a very clearly defined set of symbols. You know it when you see it, if you're aware of the lifestyle and the culture. Very many people in the U.S. are not fully aware, and refer to "street" based solely on whatever they've seen depicted in the media. Even if these people don't have the full picture, they can usually identify the basic signs.

 

[nomadologist]

how does it work with music made by black southerners in the US then, who live in what are 'rural' areas?

those artists have taken on the signifiers (in dress, in attitude, often in slang, etc.) of the inner city, or of those from the inner city, or of gang/gangster culture, even though they live in more rural areas. a lot of southern rappers are still from large cities--there are several large cities in the southern U.S. Atlanta, Houston, Miami are huge cities and hip-hop meccas...

 

[Logan Sama]

Other than that, "street" has a very specific chain of signifiers/signified that make up the signs we read as such. To put it in Saussurean linguistic jargon. To put it more clearly, "street" is an adjective applied to a very clearly defined set of symbols. You know it when you see it, if you're aware of the lifestyle and the culture. Very many people in the U.S. are not fully aware, and refer to "street" based solely on whatever they've seen depicted in the media. Even if these people don't have the full picture, they can usually identify the basic signs.

Therefor surely "street" would be an entirely fluid description based on each individuals personal 'trigger' signals they notice.

I am sure that someone from a suburban comfortable area who is not all too interested in the 'street' culture would consider certain people to be street, whilst people from the hood would probably think that said same person was soft.

 

[ford.anglia]

In the UK wouldn't the history of "street" music go something like this...?


c1962-66
Mod
(contemporary soul/bluebeat/some jazz)

c1967-71
Hard Mod/Skinhead (from 1968)
(reggae)
proto Northern Soul fans
(soul)

c1972-83
(*in London and the South-East*
Soul/Funk scene
(soul/funk/and from late 70s also jazz-funk/jazz)
probably still exists in some way in the form of R & B/modern soul/house/garage/2 step scenes today

c1970-83
(*in rest of England especially Lancs/Yorks and Midlands*
Northern Soul scene
(Northern Soul)



c1983-present
Hip Hop and its later offshoots

1987-1991
House/Acid House (1987-89)/early techno

1990-93
Hardcore

1993-present
Jungle/Drum and Bass

1994-present
UK Garage/Speed Garage/Bassline




If we're talking working class music as heard blaring out of windows/in clubs/ etc in urban (or working class suburban) areas and with a multi cultural input (either in its listeners or who made it) I think this is a pretty fair summation of the last 45 years.

I havent included Reggae as (after the skinheads/suedeheads) at a street level this was a largely an all black scene.
Similarly I've not included hard house/trance/happy hardcore although they were the musics of choice of vast swathes of the white working class youth (the successors to many of the earlier groups detailed above) who were undeniably "street" if it means anything at all in sociological terms.

 

[Guybrush]

Many good points made here. I think we need to distinguish between defining ‘street’ by how it is used by common people (the anthropological approach) and trying to define it for purpose of using it in scholarly slanted discussions.

 

[mms]

it's complicated, i hear dancehall coming out of cars around here. and white kids with dancehall tracks on their phones on trains etc, less so soca, which is something that white kids don't really seem to get involved with.
outside large cities, and in places like scotland, trance is king as are happy hardcore and gabber, gabber was huge in cornwall in mid 90's, much more so that jungle or drum and bass which hadn't really caught on.
These are things that develop locally, check out stuff like that sheffield bassline house and also german stuff like jumpstyle, the frankfurt dark stuff etc, i think as much as the us has developments locally in hip hop, the uk has its equivalent in music for dancing at gatherings then there is of course the reflections back and forth between america and europe.

 

[Tactics]

big up to Logan

you double dog dared! how can I not take that up?

sorry for the tangent on the thread but being that I partially helped 'spawn' this...low me pls lol

its funny how you took the simple approach to my (a bit aggro maybe) response but oh well *shrugs*

as I already stated you wouldn't 'listen' to my/the or a point(s) cos I remember going through this when I first joined this board but I just had to remind you...and I'll keep going if the point comes up again (even though this was about the term 'street' lol)

also don't you mean aliases? ok...sorry I thought this was the net...I had no idea your were actually born as Logan Sama lol

I also find it hilarious that the people that do have an active part in the music (that I communicate with and you do also) DO consider Grime black music lol - what's your take on that?

good thread though - big up nomadologist - 'signifiers and 'signified'....takes me back to college *sighs*

 

[Mr. Tea]

how does it work with music made by black southerners in the US then, who live in what are 'rural' areas? urban is just a term for people to say 'black music' without having to say it. i dont get it personally. ive prob said this before but if were okay with saying food is chinese, or indian, or italian, why is it such a problem to say music is black? okay, black isnt a nationality, and in that case, im fine with saying african american music, or jamaican music, but people just like to lump all that into one as 'urban' dont they?

Because although the music is largely black in origin, many non-black people now make it. Eminem and Lady Soveriegn are found in the 'Urban' section of music shops; Duke Ellington and Jimi Hendrix aren't.

 

[Tactics]

Because although the music is largely black in origin, many non-black people now make it. Eminem and Lady Soveriegn are found in the 'Urban' section of music shops; Duke Ellington and Jimi Hendrix aren't.

black music can be made by people all over the world...by people of different nationalities, cultures and people groups...like its music man! but the music is still black music - why don't ppl get this? why do ppl have so much trouble digesting this? or have I got you wrong?

when people side step this but still can call asian music asian music, or desi, for example (despite the large number of non-asian ppls in the larger infrastructure of the scene) then I can only think that the problem is more specific and is being influenced by 1) psychological and 2) power and ppl group issues....and this goes for black/african people too

which is all beyond music...but feeds into it and is of (the issue that is) more importance

 

[nomadologist]

In the U.S. it would be considered pretty tacky to call any music made by anyone with "roots" in music made by black people "black music", mostly because it's important to reserve black identity for black people, for obvious reasons.

 

[Mr. Tea]

It annoys me that there's a "Music Of Black Origin" award in the UK, for two reasons - firstly, almost all popular music has at least some black origins somewhere along the line (blues->rock'n'roll, anyone? I'm sure this point has been made often enough to have passed in to the realm of cliche), and secondly because rap and r'n'b aren't exactly under-exposed, minority-interest genres these days. Last I heard, hip-hop and its various derivatives constitute the biggest selling style of music in the world.

Edit: in response to Tactics' point about Asian music, I would say that there's a very big difference between that and black music in Western (US/UK) culture, since black music has been a big thing in America among certain white groups (jazz fans) for nearly a century now, and has become inextricably intertwined with 'white' music in the form of, well, most modern rock and dance music, not to mention reggae, ska, hip-hip etc. etc., so black music (in the most general sense) sounds very familiar to white people, even people who don't really listen to that sort of music much (like me), whereas Asian music doesn't have that history of cross-fertilisation and therefore still sounds 'exotic' to most non-Asians.

 

[nomadologist]

Word, Mr Tea. It's pretty trivializing to pretend that the history of pop isn't full of parallels to the history of "black music", anyway, and equally trivializing to pretend that anything for these reasons is "black music."

 

[Mr. Tea]

In the U.S. it would be considered pretty tacky to call any music made by anyone with "roots" in music made by black people "black music", mostly because it's important to reserve black identity for black people, for obvious reasons.

But then, Americans are scared of saying "Black" full stop, hence the unweildy "African-American".

 

[nomadologist]

I think you're about 15 years late with that. No one says African-American anymore. That was back during the PC heyday.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Really? I've not spent a lot of time in the US, I'm just going on what I hear on TV. It always stuck me as a stupid usage, as if "Black" was something that had to be euphemised, like blind/visually challenged, etc.

A (black, British) guy on another messageboard I use used to work in Butlin's (a popular British 'holiday camp', as nightmarish as that sounds) who was refered to by an American tourist as a "British African-American").