Modern d'n'b is rubbish - tune ID and a moan from an old man

bassnation

the abyss
aparently Position Chrome is releasing new material. listening to some of these 12s is reigniting what i felt the first time i heard Low Profile Darkness -- absolute devastation. what ever objections people have about D'n'B becoming unsexy and over run by testosterone, that was a collosal, masterfully produced record with not a single dull moment in sight.

we can not go back in time. the only way is forward - and if that means delving into dark, alien, mechanical evil, and if all the girls get scared and run away, then so be it.

as long as "progress" != a load of tuneless heavy metal bollocks, then fair enough. otherwise i'll stick to dubstep, thanks.

and i don't know about anyone else, but i'm not going to ANY club which has managed to scare the women away, simple as that.

btw, old skool jungle set from myself soon come.
 

mms

sometimes
as long as "progress" != a load of tuneless heavy metal bollocks, then fair enough. otherwise i'll stick to dubstep, thanks.

and i don't know about anyone else, but i'm not going to ANY club which has managed to scare the women away, simple as that.

btw, old skool jungle set from myself soon come.


i don't buy this hard and dark scares women away stuff, it depends really what you want to do with your music, plenty of women at breakcore night etc, maybe the diffrence is populist vs dark underground, but then drum and bass was probably more popular when it got more 2 steppy and steely
 

bassnation

the abyss
i don't buy this hard and dark scares women away stuff, it depends really what you want to do with your music, plenty of women at breakcore night etc, maybe the diffrence is populist vs dark underground, but then drum and bass was probably more popular when it got more 2 steppy and steely

the old "rnb and sugary grooves for the ladies" cliche - lol.

true, but hypothetically speaking, if it did scare away the ladies, in my view it would be A Bad Thing.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
true, but hypothetically speaking, if it did scare away the ladies, in my view it would be A Bad Thing.

But once they've all left you and the lads can breathe a sigh of relief and start seriously getting down to Frankie Goes To Hollywood and the Grease soundtrack.

I KNOW YOUR LITTLE GAME! ;)
 

swears

preppy-kei
we can not go back in time. the only way is forward - and if that means delving into dark, alien, mechanical evil, and if all the girls get scared and run away, then so be it.

lol at the irony here, this is the sort of thing people in the UK thought was the way "forward" in 1998.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
all i'm saying is that the ultra-futuristic bleak and aggressive thing is a valid form of exploration and expression. that's all. as sad and ultimately defeating as it may be... i still get a huge rush from Panacea type stuff.
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
it's not the redeemer - hardcore owes us money thing is it? i actually didn't like that one at all...
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah, that's the one. The harshness of it really appeals to me, as I get a stupendous hard-on for filthy industrial noise. ;)
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
The mystery seems to be as to why the younger, presumably 'fresher' producers are making largely dull d 'n b...

Nice ideas on this but you missed a few things I think...

Renegade technology vs. 'officially sanctioned'. In the period 1991-1996, equipment manufacturers weren't aware of dance music producers as a seperate market, and they didn't make kit especially for them - so dance producers had to put some thought into how to get the sounds they wanted from the machines built for the general market. Plus it was expensive, so they had to save and they generally didn't have too much (a sampler, and few keyboards and a DAT was a typical setup for dance music pre-1997ish).

Around 1997 manufacturers cottoned on to this big market of amateur/bedroom producers and started to make groovebox-type products that laid it all out for you, and the move to software music made studio building a lot cheaper. Result is that where producers used to be techno-rebels, they are now techno-consumers - acquiring kit that is perfectly attuned to thier apparent desires, with little financial or emotional outlay.

I have mixed feelings on this. I think this blurring of the boundaries between producers and audience in dance music is probably unstoppable, and I like the 100% access to the means of production that software music allows, cos I remember trying to save up for an Akai S950 when I was 17. But making electronic music is always about an engagement with the technology, and if the machines are gratifying your every whim without you even thinking about it, you never learn how be the master in that process. For me, making music on the purpose-designed equipment is like the 'officially sanctioned' graffiti you see around - always slightly crap compared to the real thing, because the factor of negotiation with a hostile enviroment isn't there. The smarter producers realise this and come up with stategies to get round it, like Burial using Soundforge (which is an audio editing program - you're not supposed to make tunes on it). But obviously most people go down the path of least resistance. I guess this might be psychological too - because punk ideas about questioning your environment were still current in the early days of dance music, where as todays kids live in a more narrowly defined, results-driven world. Maybe I'm judging them too harshly though.

Also, the big innovative strides always seem to occur when the music moves away from the clubs. If dance music is made for dancing, form will always be driven by function - and club/dance styles often reach a zenith of pure functionality that allow the individual producer very little room to manouver, and make it extremely dull for the listener (as opposed to the dancer) - loads of examples of this, trance, progressive house, etc. Where there is innovation, it's about making the music more boldly functional, like what Chicago house did to disco.

However when the medium of delivery moves away from clubs towards something else, like mixtapes (hardcore 91-94), pirate radio (jungle 92-95, post-garage sounds 01-06) or the net (IDM/Clicks and cuts) - suddenly producers get loads more space to play around with ideas, because they don't have to be rocking bodies with every track. It helps that non-club scenes are often marginalised in some way - it means they're smaller and have something of a siege mentality, so it's easier for producers to swap ideas.

The key era is when a new sound emerges back into the clubs - what D&B went through in '95-97 and never really got right, and what dubstep is doing now.
 

mms

sometimes
the old "rnb and sugary grooves for the ladies" cliche - lol.

true, but hypothetically speaking, if it did scare away the ladies, in my view it would be A Bad Thing.

it does get bloody boring relentless grimness, but those no u turn tracks when they came in were as exciting a rush as any happy one i think, early on, they sounded incredible.
its not as if one mood or feeling is better or stronger than another, the secret is to play them off against each other.
 

bassnation

the abyss
it does get bloody boring relentless grimness, but those no u turn tracks when they came in were as exciting a rush as any happy one i think,

yeah, i liked ed rush "wormhole" and absolutely caned doc scott's "shadow boxing" (as an aside i remember seeing all kinds of djs, not just jungle, dropping that. laurent garnier at the complex in islington for example).

it got identikit really quickly though - after a while every single tune sounded exactly like dj krust "warhead" - and that was about the time i started wandering off into other things.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Stupid breakdowns and the race to fit in as many fucking drums as possible into the drop killed Drum N Bass. Well, turning away from Jungle and trying to make Drum N Bass instead killed it. But Pendulum put the final nail in the coffin with their grooveless noise.
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
we can not go back in time. the only way is forward - and if that means delving into dark, alien, mechanical evil, and if all the girls get scared and run away, then so be it.

I agree that we can never go back, I just wish they could do the bleak, futuristic, post-human thing without always trying to sound so cartoonishly "evil", and yeah, the battle for the biggest, baddest, most cinematic breakdowns and drops just sound like little boys playing war after a while... Not that I didn't have my techstep and neurofunk phase back in the day myself...
 

zhao

there are no accidents
I agree that we can never go back, I just wish they could do the bleak, futuristic, post-human thing without always trying to sound so cartoonishly "evil", and yeah, the battle for the biggest, baddest, most cinematic breakdowns and drops just sound like little boys playing war after a while... Not that I didn't have my techstep and neurofunk phase back in the day myself...

of course. what i tried to say earlier, which prolly didn't completely get across, is that just like anything, it just has to be done well. modern DnB sucks not because it's too "dark" or too "aggressive", not because there is anything inherently "dead end" in these qualities, but simply because people who make it were raised on ritalin, and it all sounds fucking stupid-repetitive and boring.

but in the proper hands, the evil would cease to be cartoonish and become real...
 
all i'm saying is that the ultra-futuristic bleak and aggressive thing is a valid form of exploration and expression.

Absolutely. It's just that this often attracts lots of meatheads too, who eventually flood the scene with dull macho crap and that scares people away.
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
it just has to be done well. modern DnB sucks not because it's too "dark" or too "aggressive", not because there is anything inherently "dead end" in these qualities, but simply because people who make it were raised on ritalin, and it all sounds fucking stupid-repetitive and boring.

but in the proper hands, the evil would cease to be cartoonish and become real...

Totally agree...

And with Dunniger's point. Maybe it's my own bias, but I could never imagine meatheads taking over as ever possibly being good for the creative direction of a genre. :rolleyes:
 
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