Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Alright, I thought so. I got confused cos the post was directed at me.
Are you drunk at 12.30pm? Good work if you are. I've got to say I'm considering it myself, the weather's doing my head in.
Alright, I thought so. I got confused cos the post was directed at me.
Are you drunk at 12.30pm? Good work if you are. I've got to say I'm considering it myself, the weather's doing my head in.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Don't think Cosmic Baby was breakbeat based. It was more drum machines and euphoric analogue arpeggios.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Alright, I thought so. I got confused cos the post was directed at me.
Are you drunk at 12.30pm? Good work if you are. I've got to say I'm considering it myself, the weather's doing my head in.
Heheh. Not drunk bruv, but you picked me up on something which was a response to a specific claim made by the Troy.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Yeah thats how I remember Cosmic Baby. Good call on Orbital though, that is just as good as SAW1 or Kitchen. I might listen to that right now as it goes.
fair enough, I only remember disliking the (very very) little I heard of him way back when...
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
But then, there's that whole seam of US West Coast trance that is very breakbeat based. In fact they seemed to use the exact same break on every record.
Definitely more of an acid scene that, taking on board elements that go back to the beats / merry pranksters / grateful dead. That's a whole other 'nuum isn't it.
Definitely more of an acid scene that, taking on board elements that go back to the beats / merry pranksters / grateful dead. That's a whole other 'nuum isn't it.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
I think the confusion is, you're talking about rave as a sound, I'm talking about rave as a British subculture.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
So we're both right. I will have another, seems you're asking. Tell Gus to kick the vermouth in the head...
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Yeah I get that.
But subcultures move on, I'd say people trying to recreate the exact conditions of 90s rave in trance / squat acid scenes just haven't moved on, it's a nostalgia thing and a dead end. Which paradoxically is what people have claimed about dubstep, although I haven't heard that said in a while, which is in fact throwing excellent parties that are presenting some new cultural angles.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Is this a class thing again?
This thread is reeaally making me want to hunt down some early trance, but I have no idea where to start, 'cept an ex-girlfriend who had some but I ain't calling her.
Have some of the artists mentioned earlier in the thread been (early) trance or more proto-trance, acid/crusty techno?
Have some of the artists mentioned earlier in the thread been (early) trance or more proto-trance, acid/crusty techno?
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Except that US trance takes almost nothing directly from rave. It's hippies and punks meeting up with house and hip-hop so it's really a parallel development.
But yeah it's not an argument, I just couldn't understand Troy saying the 'rave blood' was dead because it wasn't there in 'minimal' and 'electro', that seemed to ignore huge swathes of other music, which is also why I highlighted your Gabba, cos that's another one.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
I'd say trance proper already existed before crusty techno, or they occurred more or less simultaneously. Could be wrong though as I'm not all that interested in crusty techno I have to say.
As for proto-trance, where do you start?
Good early trance is probably quite obvious - Jam & Spoon - Stella, Age Of Love - Age Of Love...
Would recommend Euphorhythm - Chill Out Planet Earth on Space Teddy for deep chilled acid trance and also Psychick Warriors Ov Gaia as mentioned earlier on a darker more industrial tip.
US wise - God Within - Raincry / Rabbit In The Moon - Phases Of An Out Of Body Experience.
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Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
I've never been to a free party where anyone's tried to recreate the exact conditions of anything - that level of detail is a bit beyond most crews i think, they're generally just trying to get people into the building without getting busted. It's more about appropraiting a non-club space, possibly illegal, and playing funktional music aimed at people on drugs - there's also a black humour and an underdog snarl to free party culture that really reminds me of hardcore, and that I don't see in any other sphere of contemporary dance music.
If you're saying that any time anyone throws a party just for people to come in & do thier thing, without any overarching cultural agenda on the promoters part, then that's automatically a 90s throwback - I think that's a bit of an indictment of modern clubs TBH.
The history of UK hardcore has been warped because so many of the people chronicling it were based in London (and this is a recurrent beef of mine) - rave culture was nothing like as monolithic as people make it out to be, lots of rave clubs were playing banging German techno and dutch EBM/proto-gabba stuff as well as breakbeats. The thing about 'rave culture' is that actually the music is one of the less significant elements to it - which is why rave has always been a purist's nightmare, because it's not 'all about the music'. it's about getting wasted and letting off steam.
Wherever you have cheesy, funktionally produced music made by untutored producers for skinny, bug-eyed kids to play in their vauxhall novas in McDonalds car parks at 4am - there you have the blood of rave.
Where did that waiter go?
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
The big german trance clubs were places like the Omen, Dorian Grey and (to a lesser extent) E-werk and Tresor. I'd start by googling for mixes from those places in 90-93. Or you could go for some of those Trance Europe Express comps - a lot of great techno on those too. Trance didn't really emerge as a specific genre until the mid 90s.
If anyone finds a trance equivilent of deep house pages, let me know!
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Yeah I totally take your point about the hardcore spirit, I just think that you can operate in different ways. And conditions are obviously different now with regard to free parties.
I've experienced more than enough of that but lack of emphasis on the music, or funktional music for people on drugs is always going to be, well not for me. I just love music too much. I have been involved in free parties where that wasn't the case so I know it doesn't have to be that way. If people want to take drugs and absorb shit media all night they are muppets. Have some flaming dignity and vision, or if you don't care about music then get some people that do. That's not directed at you.
sodiumnightlife
Sweet Virginia
I love taking drugs to music but even when I'm on them I won't dance to shit. I was once wrecked on some really powerful pills in a student bar and stood for half an hour on the danc efloor stock still with my fingers in my ears.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
If we're talking about shit music for scumbags on loads of drugs then nu-rave really is the new rave.
True, but we never really had a sense of the UK definition of rave out here either. By the time it really took off, "rave" in the US just meant trance, happy hardcore, and jungle/dnb. The majority of the kids didn't know about the history (except the junglists), the differences between the UK 'nuum, and say, Germany's techno and trance. It was all E and acid music to us, and we totally re-contextualized it all culturally. The early underground scene knew about ardcore, but that was quickly forgotten, and it evolved into it's own thing. So we had raver hippies (def an outgrowth of California's hippie tradition), who threw desert and forest parties. That still continues as an underground trance scene, and has actually come full circle and fused with the hippie jam-band scene at times (there are actually jam-bands, since the late 90s, who play post-Phish style jam-rock mixed with psych-trance, called jamtronica/trancefusion). Raves in suburbia on the other hand were really infantile... We experienced it all like a big colorful flashback of our 80s childhood (seriously... it was very video-gamey, the whole PLUR and candy-kid thing, lots of 80s cartoon iconography, the girls dressing up like a sexed-up cross between 80s cartoon characters like "Rainbow Bright" and anime...) Def it's own thing out here.
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