Trance

[Gabba Flamenco Crossover]

I agree with both of you but the flipside of that, especially if you're producing, is that you get lost in the minutae of music and forget how little of it really matters to the majority of people. I used to produce IDM stuff and just got locked into this punishing cycle of trying to reinvent the wheel every time I made music, producing the most angular, obscure tracks then being really disappointed when my music failed to connect with people. When I started going to free parties frequently about four years ago, on of the things that impressed me was the functionality of the music, and the way that the artists agenda wasn't tolerated at all. It was all about the dancers, they were in charge aesthetically.

And once you get into the vibe of free parties, normal clubs start to become really boring. Everyone acts the same, no-one stands out, there's no random office furniture, no dogs running around, etc etc. You miss the edge of it. That said I do tend to avoid parties that are heavily psytrance or breakcore, cos it's not really my bag.

 

[Chris]

The history of UK hardcore has been warped because so many of the people chronicling it were based in London (and this is a recurrent beef of mine) - rave culture was nothing like as monolithic as people make it out to be, lots of rave clubs were playing banging German techno and dutch EBM/proto-gabba stuff as well as breakbeats. The thing about 'rave culture' is that actually the music is one of the less significant elements to it - which is why rave has always been a purist's nightmare, because it's not 'all about the music'. it's about getting wasted and letting off steam.

Great point... People talk about "Detroit purism", but there's definitely a "Nuum purism" too. Like the only music that counted as rave was ardcore (sure, originally perhaps, in the UK, but soon afterwards and elsewhere...?), and the only version of hardcore (besides at times Belgian hardcore), that really counted in the "hardcore continuum", was that specific London strain that fused hiphop/dub-bass/techno. Wouldn't even happy hardcore have been part of the "hardcore continuum"? Not to take away from the fact that the London nuum was and is one of the most innovative musical continuums ever...

 

[noel emits]

Great point... People talk about "Detroit purism", but there's definitely a "Nuum purism" too. Like the only music that counted as rave was ardcore (sure, originally yes, and in the UK, but soon afterwards and elsewhere...?)...

Rave existed before hardcore indeed. Happy Hardcore came quite a bit later of course and was a reaction to Jungle in a way. It also sort of disqualifies itself as a hardcore music I think by attempting to completely excise the dark-side. Interestingly at one point it moved into Happy Trance Core. Quite fond of the odd Happy Hardcore tune though, it's a lot of fun but quickly gets sickly.

 

[Chris]

Rave existed before hardcore indeed. Happy Hardcore came quite a bit later of course and was a reaction to Jungle in a way. It also sort of disqualifies itself as a hardcore music I think by attempting to completely excise the dark-side. Interestingly at one point it moved into Happy Trance Core.

But I always felt that while jungle/2step/garage/grime/dubstep carried on some of hardcore's more innovative aspects, happy hardcore continued rave's early optimism and E'd-up rush that the "propa" nuum discarded... which was also a big aspect of rave's early vibe, even if the music was much stranger/darker at times... Or was the optimism and lovey-dovey shit even earlier, pre-hardcore?

 

[noel emits]

But I always felt that while jungle/2step/garage/grime/dubstep carried on some of hardcore's more innovative aspects, happy hardcore continued rave's early optimism and E'd-up rush that the "propa" nuum discarded... which was a big aspect of the early rave vibe, even if the music was much stranger/darker at times... Or was the optimism and lovey-dovey shit only really early on, pre-hardcore?

I think the purely optimistic phase was very brief indeed and fed off the Ibiza sun, honeymoons with good MDMA and the buzz of a new movement coming out of grey times. Also with things like Chicago Acid and industrial music being in the mix there was always a degree of harshness. Maybe that sounds like a London-centric definition. Might be more sustainable in the Cali sunshine though

Obviously for a healthy scene balance is key.

It's probably Trance attempting to recapture those endless peaks that makes it sound so hollow.

 

[Gabba Flamenco Crossover]

It's probably Trance attempting to recapture those endless peaks that makes it sound so hollow.

I think that's true. Also the fact that the people in trance scenes don't stake as much on it emotionally as in other 'happy' scenes like post-95 hardcore. Trance has got some of that dilettante traveller vibe to it, where if something disappoints you just keep on moving, trying to find the next beach or party or whatever. Other dance scenes are about making the most of the dump your in, cos you ain't gonna be leaving.

 

[bassnation]

So you're talking about the spirit of 'dont-look-back-forward-into-the-future' while pining for some remembered golden age? :slanted:

I don't see anyone claiming that modern 'minimal' or 'electro' have much to do with rave beyond being dance music that has come after 'rave', plus there are some far more obvious and plausible candidates for where the 'rave blood' has gone, and I don't mean the Jeremy Klarksons.

Also I don't think the link from rave music to trance is all that strong either, with trance owing more to synth-pop and German electronic music (T-Dream / Klaus Schultze) than to rave, which being in the UK I tend to think of as breakbeat music.

i disagree with this. listen to a lot of old skool hardcore and you can hear elements that were later involved with trance. there were lots of ravers who got into that after hardcore got too dark. theres also a big crossover with the traveller rave scene. trance and hardcore are much more closely intertwined than electro and harcore, for instance. trance owes very little to synth pop, beyond the fact that both use synths. its a part of the rave dispora and that can't be plausibly denied.

also hard house / trance nights are the last form of shirts off nutty working class rave in my view, although as an old man i find them to be an excruciating experience.

 

[noel emits]

I understand what you're saying bassnation but I will just say one more time that I was really responding to Troy saying the 'rave blood' had died and only citing 'minimal' and 'electro' as evidence.

 

[bassnation]

I understand what you're saying bassnation but I will just say one more time that I was really responding to Troy saying the 'rave blood' had died and only citing 'minimal' and 'electro' as evidence.

ah sorry, missed those follow up replies

also just thinking of some producers that straddle both genres - gto being one.

contentiously i also think UR do - their early stuff is classed as rave by many people and their later stuff like jaguar is definitely trance.

 

[noel emits]

But bollocks to it - regardless of the listening demographic I still maintain that trance's real progenitors are Tangerine Dream / Klaus Schultze and hippy new age music combined with house and techno.

x-post - oops.

The KLF complicate things a bit. They were ostensibly both rave and proto-trance, whilst actually being pop pranksters.

 

[Gabba Flamenco Crossover]

ah sorry, missed those follow up replies

also just thinking of some producers that straddle both genres - gto being one.

contentiously i also think UR do - their early stuff is classed as rave by many people and their later stuff like jaguar is definitely trance.

s'aalright mate we're gettn drunk. Pull up a chair. Noel's round. What'll it be?

 

[Chris]

But bollocks to it - regardless of the listening demographic I still maintain that trance's real progenitors are Tangerine Dream / Klaus Schultze and hippy new age music combined with house and techno.

Totally agreed.


Edit: and cheers on the recommendations, all.

 

[bassnation]

s'aalright mate we're gettn drunk. Pull up a chair. Noel's round. What'll it be?

dark rum is my poison (well, one of them, at least)

funnily enough ranting about trance is something i often do with unwary randoms when i'm drunk.

 

[Gabba Flamenco Crossover]

The KLF complicate things a bit. They were ostensibly both rave and proto-trance, whilst actually being pop pranksters.

...but PoMo pop pranksters by thier nature are outside of any kind of continuum, aren't they?

Wierdly, the KLF sound a lot more like trance does now than the trance being made when they were around.

 

[noel emits]

That's true but they got right in there didn't they. Good on 'em.

There was some footage on YouTube of them doing a PA at some big orbital rave and lobbing bank notes off the scaffolding.

Oh OK, Chipping Norton:

 

[smn]

This thread is reeaally making me want to hunt down some early trance, but I have no idea where to start...

I think the German Superstition label: http://www.discogs.com/label/Superstition is a pretty damn good place to start. In general I've absolutely no time or tolerance for trance but even I'll admit that they released some great tracks back in the day.

I'm pretty sure my first exposure to the label was the Humate track - 3.1 - on this mixtape: http://www.discogs.com/release/112385 by Justin Robertson (which totally fucking rocks by the way - anybody got a digital copy by any chance?). I remember reading some remarks on the mix by JR himself in which he referred to the Humate track as "honest trance", which is just about bang on. No bullshit here: just a driving and emotive (but not overly so) piece of music. Man I'd love to hear it again actually... And the mixtape too

Actually I've just realised that another piece of trance I wanted to mention - D-Saw's Track 10:30 is also on Superstition, albeit from 2003. Definitely worth a spin too.

 

[Troy]

I'm pretty sure my first exposure to the label was the Humate track - 3.1 - on this mixtape: http://www.discogs.com/release/112385 by Justin Robertson (which totally fucking rocks by the way - anybody got a digital copy by any chance?). I remember reading some remarks on the mix by JR himself in which he referred to the Humate track as "honest trance", which is just about bang on. No bullshit here: just a driving and emotive (but not overly so) piece of music. Man I'd love to hear it again actually... And the mixtape too

That mixtape you mentioned was the first mix I ever listened to. To me it is absolutely the best techno mix ever!! I still have the cassette and have digitized it. I actually sent a copy to Simon Reynolds. He called it "bangin". You have to hear it to believe it. Starts out with hip-hop, through trip-hop, early big-beat, onto some acid and techno and through the most intense techno I have ever heard. Just perfect. I've bought hundreds of DJ mixes since but that's the best. Maybe because it was my first. Maybe not.

 

[DigitalDjigit]

I adore trance. The new Aril Brikha records are definitely trance. So is a lot of stuff on Traum. Trance is definitely rave music. What Moving Shadow was to the UK, Harthouse was to Germany. And who was the guy behind Harthouse? Sven Vath! The man behind Cocoon. So no wonder trance is making a comeback (disguised as minimal). Anyone heard that Beroshima record "Horizon"? Pure trance. Class.

Yeah, trance meant a lot of things. Back around '90-'91 it was the stuff coming out of New York from Atmosphere Records (revelations - first power), Nu Groove (some of the stuff...like "Fall into a trance" of course), Submliminal Aura - Ease The Pressure etc.

Then the Germans picked up the torch. With labels like Harthouse, MFS, Space Teddy, Gaia Tonetraeger etc... And I agree that this sounds a lot like space music from the 70's with a beat. But this was rave music also.

The US had some awesome trance. Namely the "Exist Dance" label which was just mind-blowing stuff, mostly produced by the same two guys. Get their CD comp, essential.

Anyway, I could go on for a while.

Here's something to listen to:

http://www.ilyay.com/diesel_disco/dd070123a.ogg

A mix of hard trance and darkcore jungle showing the two directions of intensification of rave circa ’93.

Cygnus X – Orange Theme (Eye Q)
Tango & Ratty – Final Conflict
Aapogee – The Force (Come To The Darkside Mix) (Rabbit City)
Chaos & Julia Set – Bounce (Recoil)
Skyflyer – Flying Deeper
Ed Rush – Bludclot Artattack (Dark Mix) (No U-Turn)
Escape – Escape From Neptune (Fax +49-69/450464)
Matchstick Man (white label)
Paragliders – Paraglide (Humate Remix) (Superstition)
Jack ‘n’ Phil – Unity (Vocal Mix) (Basement)
Mikerobenics – Julika (Comes Too Late Mix) (Harthouse)
Studio Pressure – Jump Mk II (Certificate 18)
Drax – Phospere (Oscillator)
Metalheads – Sinister (Synthetic)
Arpeggiators – Discover Your Inner Self (Harthouse)
Tango – Future Followers (Remix) (Formation)
Eternal Basement – Taking Place In You (Meditation Mix) (Harthouse)
Jack Smooth & Alex Reece – Untitled (Sound Entity)

It was sort of an experiment...so pardon the mixing.

 

[DRMHCP]

Not globally, but in the UK I think it's there, especially in the north. I think Gatecrasher was the closest UK clubbing has come since the hardcore era to approximating hardcore's subcultural intensity. Trance is massive at free parties too, especially with the younger rigs.

Agree with this intensity thing... I used to be a regular at Strawberry Sundae, Sunnyside Up/Mind Over Matter when I lived in the London area which especially in their latter days played a lot of hard trance and believe me those places and especially (because it was always so rammed ) Strawberry Sundae was about as intense as it gets.I suppose if you took away from the acid days the nostalgia and the feeling you were part of something culturally massive I'd say I'd look on Strawberry Sundae at its peak as the equal in its sheer euphoric vibe of any of the big orbital parties or the clubs from the earlier era. And the crowd was similar too loads of typical rave working class suburban kids and dodgy cockney geezers but also a sprinking of hippies, students and various waifs and strays
So to me there's definitely a continuum from 1988 all the way through till at least the early noughties with trance being very much part of it

I took my friend (who'd been off the scene since the early 90s but who was a real seen it all/"it's nothing like the old days" bloke) to strawberry sundae and I remember when we got in there he just turned to me and went "This is mental!". He also thought that it was the equal in intensity and sheer abandon of anything from 1988/89 I can't say how it would have compared to the Hardcore era as I wasnt clubbing from about 1990 until about 1994 but Strawberry Sundae was about as rave as it gets and middle of the night all the way through to 7 there was usually bangin' hard trance.

And surely hardcore was also very similar musically to trance...the big stabs, often similar
chords...and in my opinion both strands of music can be traced back to IMHO one of THE most influential tracks in dance music/any music! the Blow Out Dub of Landlord's "I Like It" from 1989...the original for a million later hardcore and trance rave stabs

 

[bassnation]

I took my friend (who'd been off the scene since the early 90s but who was a real seen it all/"it's nothing like the old days2 bloke) to strawberry sundae and I remember when we got in there he just turned to me and went "This is mental!". He also thought that it was the equal in intensity and sheer abandon of anything from 1988/89 I can't say how it would have compared to the Hardcore era as I wasnt clubbing from about 1990 until about 1994 but Strawberry Sundae was about as rave as it gets and middle of the night all the way through to 7 there was usually bangin' hard trance.

And surely hardcore was also very similar musically to trance...the big stabs, often similar
chords...and in my opinion both strands of music can be traced back to IMHO one of THE most influential tracks in dance music/any music! the Blow Out Dub of Landlord's "I Like It" from 1989...the original for a million later hardcore and trance rave stabs

yes, yes and yes again.totally otm. a lot of my welsh mates love trance and i still go to these kind of events, even though musically its not my bag - clubbing for me has always been about more than just the music, and if the companies good i don't really care. however, the intensity thing has always struck me. and also the cheesiness, the silly clothes, the abandon, the whole shirts off thing (which i couldn't imagine at a dubstep event - but someone prove me wrong, if you dare).

plus, yes, musically its got lots in common. i've also been to strawberry sundae, around about the time of the mitsuibishi explosion (the return of mega strong pills, for non-brit readers). it was really weird to come out of there totally nutted in broad daylight, midday with loads of tourists looking at your saucer like pupils. dubstep, it ain't.

the problem i have with it musically is two things: firstly its just too predictable, the drops and breakdowns are kind of hard-wired into my synapses so theres little suprise. secondly, the rhythm is not the important thing - its about the riffs. and i like syncopated odd rhythms.

the last thing i went to was gods kitchen in brum for a babys head wetting session which was totally banging. eric morillo was playing some great dark ny house but the crowd hated it. you could see all the young trance kids going "what the fuck is this slow boring shit". this is a generation which loves raving but hates house music which is weird for an old raver like me. as an aside heard a few stories which implies that apparently morillo is a total lech, but if your reading this eric,please don't sue.