Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

yyaldrin

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
protesters have set up a camp near the parliament in berlin and i was there yesterday. police are permanently present in great numbers. to give you an example how absurd the level of state repression is, it was not allowed to sing or chant in any other languages than english or german because the police didn't have an interpretor for every language and someone might say something anti-semitic (such as "from the river to the sea, palestine will be free") or someone might say a forbidden word, such as "intifida", or a forbidden sentence, such as "fuck netanyahu". arabic was allowed between 18h and 22h because there was an interpreter available during those times. before and after, it was forbidden again.

of course, non of this is constitutional and you will always win in front of a court, but the damage haven been done by that time already, you will have been arrested, you will have been harrased, you will have been registred and you will have been put on some list of people that will be monitored, let alone the incredible amount of administrative and bureaucratic shit you will have to go through for months. then, in the end, when the court decides you have done nothing wrong, there will be no consequences at all, and everything remains the same.
 
yyaldrin

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
HMGovt’s Glorious Return! said:
The same coppers were roaming around with 2 meter rulers to enforce proper social distancing during the COVID hoax. Joke country.
My son was recently in Berlin and remarked on the number of doubled up fentanyl cases on the street.
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you are right. during the covid pandemic several constitutional rights were thrown overboard, unthinkable restrictions were implemented. i remember already back then that certain people and groups warned that this would set a precedent. and i remember as well that these people were demonized, ridiculed and portrayed as fascists. but they were right, as we can see now.

"The judiciary hostile to fundamental rights, as we know it from the Berlin Administrative Court in the case of Palestine demonstrations, we owe to the era of Corona. Back then, the foundation was laid for lowering the threshold for banning demonstrations. Many people, due to justified uncertainty about the virus, thought it was correct that fundamental rights had to be restricted. Those who still demonstrated were broadly denigrated as "deniers" or conspiracy theorists. Hardly anyone stood up to protect these people, to say, "Hey, they also have fundamental rights." Currently, I see similar tendencies: Solidarity with Palestine is branded as "hateful antisemitism." The restriction and denial of fundamental rights are shrugged off or even celebrated. "Antifa means deportation," I recently read somewhere, accompanied by a picture of a Palestine demonstration." https://www.jungewelt.de/artikel/47...kmustest-für-die-bürgerlichen-freiheiten.html
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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yyaldrin said:
you are right. during the covid pandemic several constitutional rights were thrown overboard, unthinkable restrictions were implemented. i remember already back then that certain people and groups warned that this would set a precedent. and i remember as well that these people were demonized, ridiculed and portrayed as fascists. but they were right, as we can see now.

"The judiciary hostile to fundamental rights, as we know it from the Berlin Administrative Court in the case of Palestine demonstrations, we owe to the era of Corona. Back then, the foundation was laid for lowering the threshold for banning demonstrations. Many people, due to justified uncertainty about the virus, thought it was correct that fundamental rights had to be restricted. Those who still demonstrated were broadly denigrated as "deniers" or conspiracy theorists. Hardly anyone stood up to protect these people, to say, "Hey, they also have fundamental rights." Currently, I see similar tendencies: Solidarity with Palestine is branded as "hateful antisemitism." The restriction and denial of fundamental rights are shrugged off or even celebrated. "Antifa means deportation," I recently read somewhere, accompanied by a picture of a Palestine demonstration." https://www.jungewelt.de/artikel/473789.autoritärer-staatsumbau-palästina-ist-der-lackmustest-für-die-bürgerlichen-freiheiten.html
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So the lefties who were smearing the other lefties on lockdown marches as fascists have ended up kettled by the legislation that they thereby supported...sympathy meter is stuck at 0 pending many more recantations like the above.
 
yyaldrin

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
mixed_biscuits said:
So the lefties who were smearing the other lefties on lockdown marches as fascists have ended up kettled by the legislation that they thereby supported...sympathy meter is stuck at 0 pending many more recantations like the above.
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i guess for some of them you could say this yeh. although i think in this case, the people who are now demonstrating in solidarity with palestine weren't really the most avid supporters of the lockdown restrictions, rather the opposite i think.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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Most of the left also supports 'hate speech' prohibition...this presupposes a requirement of intelligibility. It's basically typical leftist failure mode of introducing authoritarian practices in the expectation that the opposition would never get to use them.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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You've got to have some sympathy with the German authorities: they saw the Brits giving Swastikas a free pass on the London marches and they thought hier the optics would be nicht so gut, ja? To stop this happening their trying to nip it in the bud by locating the problem lower down.
 
V

version

Well-known member
The Guardian (The Observer) have weighed in on this now:

Describing a case in which Columbia University students were asked to remove Palestinian flag emojis from their names during Zoom meetings because these “caused trauma reactions”, the academic and writer Natasha Lennard observed that this might sound like “the stuff of far-right parody: an absurd example of ‘woke’ culture”. Yet, “safety” has become “the latest weapon… to silence criticism of Israel”. “People are taking their feelings of being uncomfortable with information as the same as physically being unsafe”, one student observed. This conflation has been enabled by many on the left themselves eroding, in Lennard’s words, the distinction “between feeling safe and being safe”.
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mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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There's nothing a lecturer about to teach Fourier analysis to an auditorium of underschooled undergrads wants to see less than a sea of miscellaneous flags as if he's actually addressing the model UN. Things that are intended to distract from the learning at hand are routinely prohibited in educational settings.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

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In fact, there's a case for prohibiting the wearing of any political symbology or statement on campus as if you want someone to know what you think you can just tell them, and if they want to know what you think they can just ask you. Those kinds of interactions would be much more nuanced than the display of mere affiliation.
 
dilbert1

dilbert1

Well-known member
mixed_biscuits said:
In fact, there's a case for prohibiting the wearing of any political symbology or statement on campus as if you want someone to know what you think you can just tell them, and if they want to know what you think they can just ask you. Those kinds of interactions would be much more nuanced than the display of mere affiliation.
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Amongst the same people? Very doubtful. And why not permit both? More freedom. I agree with this as a personal stance myself, though.
 
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