version

Well-known member

During the early stages of the war, the army gave sweeping approval for officers to adopt Lavender’s kill lists, with no requirement to thoroughly check why the machine made those choices or to examine the raw intelligence data on which they were based. One source stated that human personnel often served only as a “rubber stamp” for the machine’s decisions, adding that, normally, they would personally devote only about “20 seconds” to each target before authorizing a bombing — just to make sure the Lavender-marked target is male. This was despite knowing that the system makes what are regarded as “errors” in approximately 10 percent of cases, and is known to occasionally mark individuals who have merely a loose connection to militant groups, or no connection at all.

Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. According to the sources, this was because, from what they regarded as an intelligence standpoint, it was easier to locate the individuals in their private houses. Additional automated systems, including one called “Where’s Daddy?” also revealed here for the first time, were used specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family’s residences.

The result, as the sources testified, is that thousands of Palestinians — most of them women and children or people who were not involved in the fighting — were wiped out by Israeli airstrikes, especially during the first weeks of the war, because of the AI program’s decisions.

“We were not interested in killing [Hamas] operatives only when they were in a military building or engaged in a military activity,” A., an intelligence officer, told +972 and Local Call. “On the contrary, the IDF bombed them in homes without hesitation, as a first option. It’s much easier to bomb a family’s home. The system is built to look for them in these situations.”


Damning.
 

version

Well-known member
In addition, according to the sources, when it came to targeting alleged junior militants marked by Lavender, the army preferred to only use unguided missiles, commonly known as “dumb” bombs (in contrast to “smart” precision bombs), which can destroy entire buildings on top of their occupants and cause significant casualties. “You don’t want to waste expensive bombs on unimportant people — it’s very expensive for the country and there’s a shortage [of those bombs],” said C., one of the intelligence officers. Another source said that they had personally authorized the bombing of “hundreds” of private homes of alleged junior operatives marked by Lavender, with many of these attacks killing civilians and entire families as “collateral damage.”

In an unprecedented move, according to two of the sources, the army also decided during the first weeks of the war that, for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians; in the past, the military did not authorize any “collateral damage” during assassinations of low-ranking militants. The sources added that, in the event that the target was a senior Hamas official with the rank of battalion or brigade commander, the army on several occasions authorized the killing of more than 100 civilians in the assassination of a single commander.


Can't believe they've got people going on the record admitting to this.
 

droid

Well-known member
Aid deliveries are essentially being used as bait. There have been three flour massacres so far. After the 1st one they shot people going back to claim the bodies.
 

droid

Well-known member
In addition, according to the sources, when it came to targeting alleged junior militants marked by Lavender, the army preferred to only use unguided missiles, commonly known as “dumb” bombs (in contrast to “smart” precision bombs), which can destroy entire buildings on top of their occupants and cause significant casualties. “You don’t want to waste expensive bombs on unimportant people — it’s very expensive for the country and there’s a shortage [of those bombs],” said C., one of the intelligence officers. Another source said that they had personally authorized the bombing of “hundreds” of private homes of alleged junior operatives marked by Lavender, with many of these attacks killing civilians and entire families as “collateral damage.”

In an unprecedented move, according to two of the sources, the army also decided during the first weeks of the war that, for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians; in the past, the military did not authorize any “collateral damage” during assassinations of low-ranking militants. The sources added that, in the event that the target was a senior Hamas official with the rank of battalion or brigade commander, the army on several occasions authorized the killing of more than 100 civilians in the assassination of a single commander.


Mind boggling article, tbh. Can't believe they've got people going on the record admitting to this.

376 of the Israeli deaths on October 7th were active military or security personnel, 767 were civilians. A ratio of approximately 1:2.

If Hamas and other militant groups had applied the same standards that Israel does, at least 7.5-10 times that amount of 'collateral damage' would have been 'permissible' with between 5500 - 7700 civilian deaths.
 

dilbert1

Well-known member
Chris Cutrone, from his recent essay “Israel, Palestine and the Left”

[…]

What both “Ceasefire now!” and “Defund Israel!” have in common, whatever their merits and defects, is that they are demands on the capitalist state, and moreover on its political parties — specifically, demanding these things of one Party in particular, the Democrats.

But the Biden Administration has indeed called for a ceasefire: it wants different tactics and even strategy of Israel. Most importantly, it wants Israel to give “land for peace,” end the settlements in the West Bank, and, most pertinently, not to devastate Gaza or displace the Palestinians there. Or so at least they say.

Why not believe them?



Why was a two-state solution not achieved in the aftermath of the Cold War in the 1990s?

It’s actually very simple:
The Palestinian “political leadership” has refused to officially accept the existence of Israel as a state.

After many wars, uprisings, terrorism, etc., the Palestinians lost and the Israelis won.

The stronger were victorious and the weaker were defeated. Case closed. History’s pronouncement is undeniable — and irreversible.

The Israelis expected a peace treaty of surrender by the Palestinians, which the Palestinians have refused. So Israel has continued its war against an enemy that has refused to surrender.

But the Palestinians have been defeated. This is not going to change. Ever.

Indeed, the recent Hamas attack was an act of desperation in a condition of defeat. This doesn’t justify or condone it — indeed it convicts it of futility and wanton, pointless destructiveness. Hamas has admitted as much, as they say they expected an Israeli overreaction and the destruction of Gaza and the Palestinians there, which they thought at best would create a wider regional war and at worst would make the Palestinian question impossible to ignore by the international community. Hamas spent everything it had in one final bid for political relevance. So it’s all in the end a public-relations stunt.



Hamas is a capitalist group. What does this mean? It accepts capitalism and is not in any way a challenge to it. It is a particularly Right-wing form of capitalism. It is a criminal gang. They are indeed terrorists. Terrorism is by its very nature capitalist and not socialist politics. Capitalist crime. — Crime is capitalist, not socialist. It is the capitalism of the weak, not socialism. And the weak shall not inherit the Earth. They never have.

Hamas are the Kapos in the concentration camp, recruited from ordinary criminals to rule over the rest, and hoping to slip away and survive through the mayhem. They were literally chosen by Israel to rule the Gaza Strip. The game of “military transactions” (Hegel) played between Israel and Hamas, no matter how violent and gruesome, is merely negotiating the terms of capitalism, through extremely sensationalist marketing propaganda — in images as well as deeds. And the bargaining-chips that are played consist of ordinary people’s lives — as victims and not agents, objects and not subjects of bloody capitalist politics. As the workers always are.

Hamas has aimed and aims to divide the civilian population along religious or ethnic lines. This means dividing the working class. They wagered — and lost — the lives of Palestinians in ways capitalist politicians always do. Hamas’s leadership are literally billionaires whose individual personal wealth rivals that of Donald Trump. But what have they built? Their wealth is skimmed off the misery of others — as with all gangsters. They will retire comfortably, while their fighters are slaughtered.

Today’s “Left” are a parody side-show of capitalist gangsterism, cheerleading the slaughter.

What is required in Palestine or Israel is the working-class political unity of Jewish and Arab and Muslim and Christian and other (for instance, “foreign/guest”) workers in the struggle for socialism. This is entirely contrary to either Arab nationalism — such as that of the PFLP — or Islamism — as with Hamas. It is also contrary to Zionism. It is against the nation-state — the nationalist basis for politics.

So long as capitalism persists and is not overcome in socialism, globally, there will be social and geographical divisions that invite political divisions to which the working class and other people will become inevitably subject. There will be war, inter-national state and/or civil, “legitimate” or otherwise. Always capitalist war.

But original historical Marxism said, “No war but class war!” — refusing the terms of capitalist warfare. — I know that this is regarded as “ultra-Leftism” and “Marxist purism” and “dogmatism,” but still. I prefer to maintain my self-respect as a dogmatic Marxist than pose in the mirror as a wannabe gangsta, mouthing the words to someone else’s rap. “Intifada until victory!” will be a very long time. Forever. Never.

But we can still refuse to endorse and support the capitalist politics that actively seeks to exploit and enforce such divisions and warfare: Hamas and other dominant Palestinian political forces as well as Zionism are clear examples of such destructive politics, whose devastating and anti-social results we are seeing now as well as for the past century.


In defense of Palestinian populism: A response to Chris Cutrone​


Fakhry Al-Serdawi


 

dilbert1

Well-known member
My knowledge of Holocaust history is a little shoddy, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure no one in those gas chambers actually survived
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps

In defense of Palestinian populism: A response to Chris Cutrone​


Fakhry Al-Serdawi



For the Fortune 500 companies in America, there is Black History Month, not Palestinian History Month.

Right, because Palestinians have been roughly as important in the internal history of the USA as black people and are roughly as numerous...
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Like, how many black people work for a typical large company in the US, versus how many ethnic Palestinians?

The overall thrust of that response seems reasonable, I just hate seeing poor arguments being made in support of good points.
 

dilbert1

Well-known member
Another article from Damage magazine which I meant to post. Kind of feel like this one splits the difference in a way that will make most people feel comfortable, if the Cutrone piece was just too odious. And despite the defects in Fakhry’s response, I just wanted to post it for good measure. Pieces like this are on some level inevitably bound to appear problematic and redundant, but I wager that in the future it will be more edifying looking back on the left’s discourse in this moment through such sustained treatments, rather than sifting through reflexive posting and obligatory debunks of the New York Times.

 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Another article from Damage magazine which I meant to post. Kind of feel like this one splits the difference in a way that will make most people feel comfortable, if the Cutrone piece was just too odious. And despite the defects in Fakhry’s response, I just wanted to post it for good measure. Pieces like this are on some level inevitably bound to appear problematic and redundant, but I wager that in the future it will be more edifying looking back on the left’s discourse in this moment through such sustained treatments, rather than sifting through reflexive posting and obligatory debunks of the New York Times.


Initial reports to the contrary, there is little evidence that Hamas’ military operation was a product of Iranian attempts to sabotage Israel-Saudi relations. If anything, it might have been the opposite—partly driven by an attempt by Hamas to undermine any further US-Iranian diplomacy.

This is a bold claim. I'm not dismissing it out of hand, but if Hamas didn't have significant assistance from Iran in preparing its assault last October, then where is it supposed to have got all those rockets and other gear from? We're not supposed to believe they're all the products of secret basement factories within Gaza itself, surely?
 
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