Buying records

[john eden]

"Collector" has a load of negative associations with it, I think:

that they privilege owning things above listening to them, for one. The emphasis is on rare and valuable material.

Also that their modus operandi is to acquire everything by a certain artist/label/genre regardless of whether or not they like it.

I've certainly done that in the past but it's obviously all quite subjective...

 

[IdleRich]

"isnt this what most true record collectors have always done? i remember my mates older bro used to spend silly money on records, tape them then never take them off the shelves for fear of ruining their resale value."

It's definitely not what I do - in fact, I would rather have a slightly beat (say vg-) copy that I can dj with drunkenly at a party than some mint minus copy where I would somehow feel like I'm vandalising it if I play it.

"that they privilege owning things above listening to them, for one. The emphasis is on rare and valuable material.
Also that their modus operandi is to acquire everything by a certain artist/label/genre regardless of whether or not they like it."

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at earlier in the thread - both points in fact.

 

[IdleRich]

"It's definitely not what I do - in fact, I would rather have a slightly beat (say vg-) copy that I can dj with drunkenly at a party than some mint minus copy where I would somehow feel like I'm vandalising it if I play it."

Also, further than that, in fact, I often like a little warmth and crackle (depending on what type of music it is) and there is something interesting about the way a record builds up dust and other stuff every time you play it and - without being too wanky - becomes some kind of record of everywhere it's been with you and before you had it. In the past when I've had doubles of a tune it's not been unknown for me to sell (or give away) the "better" copy because the other one is the one I've had longer and in relation to which I felt the genuine excitement of discovery. That's probably a bit weird.

 

[DannyL]

It's not that weird - I was shopping around for represses online and listened to a 7 of Prince Alla's "Stone" - it's obviously been cut from a dusty old 7 as the this repress actually has all that crackle built in. I actually prefer this to the cleaner cut available on comp CD. Bit weird to have counterfeit/reproduced crackle as a selling point though.

Wasn't there someone from Plunderphonics or something like that who used to do performances which dwelt on the noise and crackle of records?

 

[john eden]

What genres explicity cater to Collectors?

Certainly industrial music does with all its "box set edition of 555 copies, with bonus 10 inch disc including recordings of the producer going to the toilet in a tibetan monsastery" hype.

IDM seems to in some forms, also black metal?

 

[zhao]

all p-threes here. and my vast library includes, just for example, nearly THE ENTIRE OCORA CATALOG of 400+ titles (including rare early vinyl only releases).

 

[DannyL]

I was thinking of Christian Marclay:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Marclay


Bit more from wiki on him from the wiki entry on Plunderphonics:

Christian Marclay is a turntablist who has been using other people's records as the sole source of his music making since the late 1970s. He often treats the records in unusual ways — for example, he has physically cut up a number of records and stuck them together, making both a visual and aural collage. Sometimes a number of spoken-word or lounge music records bought from thrift stores are mashed together to make a Marclay track, but his More Encores album cuts up tracks by the likes of Maria Callas and Louis Armstrong in a way similar to Oswald's work on Plunderphonics. Marclay's experimental approach has been taken up by the likes of Otomo Yoshihide, Philip Jeck and Martin Tétreault, although in these artist's works the records used are sometimes heavily disguised and unrecognisable, meaning the results cannot properly be called plunderphonics.

 

[DannyL]

What genres explicity cater to Collectors?

Not quite what you mean but I can think of several genres which seem especially *targeted* by collectors - reggae (esp. 70s roots), funk, northern soul, and some of the more crazy avant garde stuff. I imagine this is because of the obscurity and small scale of the first pressings.

A mate played us The Four Vandals "The Wrong Side of Town" recently which was hyped as big Northern/modern soul discovery. It turns out it was produced by Ian Levine on the sly, and features a Pop Idol winner on vocals! Still a fucking boss tune though:


In more general terms, "collectibile" or a limted edition is used as marketing by pretty much everything these days cf. the occasional "limited edition" Mars Bars and the like. There's probably a complex point in there about the increased specialisation of the machinery of capitalism which I can't be bothered to make.

 

[IdleRich]

"What genres explicity cater to Collectors?
Certainly industrial music does with all its "box set edition of 555 copies, with bonus 10 inch disc including recordings of the producer going to the toilet in a tibetan monsastery" hype.
IDM seems to in some forms, also black metal?"

Kind of seems a bit like cheating to me, kind of artificially creating collectability. Although sometimes I can be a sucker for that kind of thing - I have got some stuff like a record called Music To Strip For Your Man By which has a pull out illustrated booklet (featuring Honey West). Also got records that came free with Seven Up in the Sixties (The Sparklings - Your Turn To Cry) and famously there is a US garage record that is made out of cardboard - not really sure how that works though.
Can be a good thing to buy these indie bands that have a lot of hype when they start, if you get their first single and they do kick off then suddenly it's going for fifty quid on ebay. Of course you've got to shift it quickly before everyone gets bored of them. I was at my friend's house the other day and he told me he's accumulated a few things like that that he's going to get rid of but it made me think that it could be worth doing as a general strategy. I guess that I won't get round it to it though.

"A mate played us The Four Vandals "The Wrong Side of Town" recently which was hyped as big Northern/modern soul discovery. It turns out it was produced by Ian Levine on the sly, and features a Pop Idol winner on vocals! Still a fucking boss tune though:"

Ian Levine was well known as a northern soul dj before he owned Heaven or anything though so I guess it's not that surprising (er, apart from the pop idol bit). Don't think Northern Soul is created for collectors as such though, more like it became collectable by dint of its rareness. Relatedly I read this thing where the band Green Fuz were so annoyed about the quality of the recording on their record that they fired most of them out of a clay pigeon shooter and destroyed them. I think that's kind of strange because now there are only five copies (or whatever it is) left they must be wishing that they hadn't done that - but if they hadn't it wouldn't be so rare.

 

[m33k +i93r]

There's probably a complex point in there about the increased specialisation of the machinery of capitalism which I can't be bothered to make.

not to mention the reduction of popular autonomy to whether one is 'man enough' to buy a Yorkie, exercises enough dilettante cultural tourism to order an iced frappuccino or some shit in Starbucks, has enough pandering yay-saying flimwads around them so they can 'look good naked' yadayadayada...

i do get a bit strange about things like wanting to own the whole oeuvre of certain artists/labels etc but its always rooted in actually liking their output in the first place and agreeing with the sense of how they view their purpose in their contemporaneous state of affairs - why its made at all i guess. not at all fussed with whether its a first pressing or white label or whatever, as long as i have/can use/enjoy it.

 

[woops]

I was thinking of Christian Marclay:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Marclay


Bit more from wiki on him from the wiki entry on Plunderphonics:

yep, he's the feller who released 'record without a cover' which was just that, a picture disc with no sleeve and the details written on the picture disc vinyl, and also pretty limited as i remember. designed to exploit this whole pick up noise and dust thing in a well conceptual way. However my mate who had a copy treated it like a collectors item and put it in another sleeve which subverted the aims of the project to create a new and challenging work that questioned the boundaries of ownership of artistic endeavour.

 

[IdleRich]

"However my mate who had a copy treated it like a collectors item and put it in another sleeve which defeats the whole objzzzzzzzzzzzz oh sorry."

Surely you mean "subverted the aims of the project to create a new and challenging work that questioned the boundaries of ownership of artistic endeavour"?

 

[TRU_G]

To be honest

If I knew that my hard drive would last for 30+ years and MP3's won't come obsolete/outdated by then I would continue downloading. But, due to the reliability of technology I know this won't happen...

I just want to be able to put songs on in 30 years time that bring me back to my youth

 

[mixed_biscuits]

If I knew that my hard drive would last for 30+ years and MP3's won't come obsolete/outdated by then I would continue downloading. But, due to the reliability of technology I know this won't happen...

Surely I can't be the only one around here who's backing up all their mp3s to vinyl?

 

[TRU_G]

Surely I can't be the only one around here who's backing up all their mp3s to vinyl?

halarious.

I meant I would continue downloading as an alternative to buying, but I know if I buy a physical copy, it is in my hands whether it lasts 30+ years

 

[Client Eastwood]

slightly OT, but as a media how reliable are cds over long periods of time ? do they deteriorate ? should i now be replacing all my cds with vinyl which is proven to last. :slanted:

 

[IdleRich]

"slightly OT, but as a media how reliable are cds over long periods of time ? do they deteriorate ?"

I think that they are not as reliable as they were originally claimed to be - but wasn't there some story about how you could increase their life expectancy by refrigerating them or something (even as I write that it sounds like bollocks)?

 

[straight]

i recently realised a lot of my cdr promos i got around 5 years ago have started flaking

 

[DannyL]

I know if I buy a physical copy, it is in my hands whether it lasts 30+ years

I wish that were true for me*. 90% of the records that I've brought have disappeared in one way or another. What I do know is that if this happens with records, then MP3s dont' stand a chance.

*Actually I don't - if they were that important I guess I'd still happen. A core stash remains.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

halarious.

I meant I would continue downloading as an alternative to buying, but I know if I buy a physical copy, it is in my hands whether it lasts 30+ years

Cheers, guv.

The thing about mp3s is that as long as you keep updating and backing up your data, they won't be lost. And in a few years, you could probably store half the internet on a keyring.

Cd-rs are more likely to flake/change colour/corrupt due to poor quality manufacture (classic circular reasoning there). Of my oodles of 'proper' cds, none have failed (yet).

I'm not a big fan of sound degradation on vinyl (it does my head in that every time I play something, I'm making things worse for the next listen). Nor DUST.