Music that is psychedelic

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Very interesting...though of course an important environmental factor has to be compounds the foetus is exposed to in utero, right? I mean, it certainly sounds plausible that sperm might be at greater risk than eggs of mutation from exposure to toxins, but there are plenty of things other than mutations that can fuck you up one way or another.

Sure, once you're pregnant, you certainly don't want to drink alcohol. But other than that, there are a few commonly presribed pills that you can't take while pregnant, or that they recommend that you don't take, but other street drugs--there's no proof that in utero exposure to crack or heroin or whatever is going to do long term damage. That was the big hysterical claim in the early 80s, about "crack babies" being deformed and shit, and all the research into it basically exposed that as a racist myth. After the initial detox period, "crack babies" end up developmentally IDENTICAL to any other babies.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Ha nice.

But seriously, Empty, if you get a chance, tell Friedler that people are reading her research, and that it's so amazing that it makes some people want to change their courseload so they can pick up where she left off...

I wonder if someone else has?
 

empty mirror

remember the jackalope
ha! okay well i just emailed her with a link to this thread----encouraged her to weigh in. she's not very cozy with computer world so time will tell...
 

littlebird

Wild Horses
But with things like autism which (I presume) aren't immediately apparent at birth, how are congenital effects distinguished from the environmental influence of having a junky or an alcoholic for a father?

good point.

i'm not sure, in any situation that one can separate out completely environmental influences vs. cogenital. and no, it is not something you spot at birth. i've done my share of research on this, for well "reasons" below.

i noticed "symptoms" when my son was 2.
he was officially (a year + of tests from various sources) diagnosed at 3 1/2.
could it have been linked to his father's alcoholism/drug use from a genetic coding level? or just having that element around? or both?

but, if it was just environmental, wouldn't his absence (the father's) improve his condition?

(veering into the personal, but i am contemplating your arguement, definitely)
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
good point.

i'm not sure, in any situation that one can separate out completely environmental influences vs. cogenital. and no, it is not something you spot at birth. i've done my share of research on this, for well "reasons" below.

i noticed "symptoms" when my son was 2.
he was officially (a year + of tests from various sources) diagnosed at 3 1/2.
could it have been linked to his father's alcoholism/drug use from a genetic coding level? or just having that element around? or both?

but, if it was just environmental, wouldn't his absence (the father's) improve his condition?

(veering into the personal, but i am contemplating your arguement, definitely)

"Environmental" in this case has nothing to do with parenting necessarily--we're talking about environmental toxins... I was talking about toxic waste in the ground water and such before... this seemed to be a promising avenue for research but I'm not sure in the last year or two where it's gone...

I have a cousin who is autistic, quite seriously on the spectrum--he talks but only imitates phrases from Dora the Explorer or Blue's Clues. No eye contact (with anyone but rarely his mother) or communication skills as of yet. It only became obvious at about 2-3...and he was only diagnosed a little after that. Since he began school, though, he's made some strides and says please and thank you. He'll respond to his name now. Apparently the earlier the diagnosis is made the better the prognosis, so that's something.

I love him to death, he's adorable. Nothing gets him down, he's got quite an indominable spirit. I think we can all learn a lot from autistic people. When I've watched him before the only thing I can get him to say to me is "popsicle please!" and that's if I stand in front of the fridge and barricade it. He loves getting out of the windows onto the roof at night while everyone else sleeps!
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Psychedelic guru

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna

anybody else heard of this guy or hear him speak while he was alive? seems like he would be right up the alley of certain people here...

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littlebird

Wild Horses
"Environmental" in this case has nothing to do with parenting necessarily--we're talking about environmental toxins... I was talking about toxic waste in the ground water and such before... this seemed to be a promising avenue for research but I'm not sure in the last year or two where it's gone...

yes. well i know there has been research/speculation on certain immunizations being a possible cause. but yes, toxins. i misunderstood what was said.

my son is on the spectrum to a lesser degree, it sounds, than your cousin. one doctor said it was closer to pdd (pervasive development disorder), the educators who tested him, and who now work with him at early learning classes say autism. but yes, the earlier the diagnosis the better chance of mainstream.

i learn more from my son than i do most adults. he sees things differently, experiences things in a very unique way. he does make eye contact, and his verbal skills are good (though there is a lot of question as to whether he is using words to communicate, or just apeing what he hears. he can do spot on impersonations).

they do like to wander off (i.e. your cousin sneaking out the windows), and often this seems to be due to being lost in thought.

misunderstandings and prejudice is difficult, even at his young age. intelligence is often questioned, and people talk to him as if he is stupid, or talk loudly in his face as if he has hearing issues, or something of that nature (which, tbh, just scares the life out of him to get so into his personal space).

dr. temple grandin has some interesting things to say on the subject, and has written/spoken on the connection with animals.

(thank you for sharing about your cousin, btw)
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna

anybody else heard of this guy or hear him speak while he was alive? seems like he would be right up the alley of certain people here...

eh, somewhat up my alley, I suppose... ;)

Like his talk in the first vid about self-progamming/deprogramming, something I'm rather interested in myself.

That 90s San Fran/Silicon Valley "cyberdelic" scene... McKenna, R. U. Sirius, Davis, Rushkoff, Mondo 2000, Whole Earth Catalog, the Well... A lot of it could get silly and utopian, but their mix of psychedelia, techno-shamanism, and cybernetic and information theory was pretty interesting and somewhat still useful I think.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
McKenna was a dude, no question.

That 90s San Fran/Silicon Valley "cyberdelic" scene...

There was a spoof documentary on the BBC a few years back about a West Country anarchist collective called 'Cyderdelic'. And everyone knows that all true goths are, at heart, cydergoths. :D

Edit: shit, I hadn't heard about this...what a collection! I'm half surprised it didn't include Unaussprechlichen Kulten and Dee's translation of the Necronomicon...
 
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empty mirror

remember the jackalope
i relied heavily on McKenna's Food of the Gods for some philosophy paper I was writing in college. It was good (the book) as I remember, but I don't remember well these days.

While I am thinking of it----there's this anecdote from Andrew Weill---he used to have allergies to animal fur/dander until he dropped acid in the woods----he was approached by deer, and he stroked them while he tripped, i imagine birds were alighting on his shoulder as well, but after that his allergies were gone!
:cool:

Also he turned fish into loaves of bread. Or had fish/chips with vinegar, I forget.
 

Loki

Well-known member
Psychedelias

Psychedelic music seems to be music that keeps you guessing, music that shifts subtly in and out of phase, music that seems to just slip out from beneath you... the aural equivalent of the sights you might just about witness out of the far corners of your eye, especially as a child...

for that reason Coil remains the most psychedelic band I've heard; deep listening and occasionally transformative... willing to let light and dark entwine... not getting murked in either... they also managed to convey the idea that psychedelic drugs can be scary and funny at the same time... and are thus far more shamanic than the drum circle and outhouse pipe 'Psychedelic'(TM) PsyTrance brigades.... not that I've not enjoyed the odd Shpongle gig or loved fucking my calves up to Eat Static but it doesn't come close and without drugs it's nothing - dry as hell: Coil and very few others retain psychedelic effects without drugs and with them... well...

psychedelic music ought also be a little synaesthetic... perception curdling...

I ranted a little about this here

http://loki23.blogspot.com/2005/05/synaesthesiasticals.html

and then got my students to think about it

http://loki23.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_archive.html

to no great effect, mind you but...
 

zhao

there are no accidents
found THE BRAIN!!!! (as if anyone besides me cared)


and yeah mckenna... i suppose he was another staple of sorts of my teenage life... along with RE:SEARCH magazine, the Anarchist's Cookbook, Situationists Anthology, the collected plays of Mayakovski, Lipstick Traces...
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
"There was a spoof documentary on the BBC a few years back about a West Country anarchist collective called 'Cyderdelic'"
My friend was talking about a sub-genre of psychedelia that he calls beer-psych. Music made in the sixties by bands that knew the psychelic thing was going on and wanted to be part of it but who, either because of their geography or lack of cool friends or whatever, had no access to drugs and no psychedelic experiences to mine for lyrics or to attempt to recreate in their music. The nearest thing they had to a psychedelic experience was getting drunk - hence his name for such groups. I don't really know exactly who he considers to fit into this group but one band he mentioned were The Troll


Not particularly sure what it is about them to suggest that to him but the English accents are hilarious.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
My friend was talking about a sub-genre of psychedelia that he calls beer-psych. Music made in the sixties by bands that knew the psychelic thing was going on and wanted to be part of it but who, either because of their geography or lack of cool friends or whatever, had no access to drugs and no psychedelic experiences to mine for lyrics or to attempt to recreate in their music. The nearest thing they had to a psychedelic experience was getting drunk - hence his name for such groups. I don't really know exactly who he considers to fit into this group but one band he mentioned were The Troll


Not particularly sure what it is about them to suggest that to him but the English accents are hilarious.

Aren't the later Rolling Stones albums kind of like beer-psych? Not because the stones didn't do psychedelics but their music, especially their later stuff, just has that bar room feel to me.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
This would seem to fit nicely into this thread: the Shepard Tone. It's a very cool auditory illusion that gives the impression of a tone that's continually ascending or descending, without ever actually changing. Check out the sound sample on the page above, it's amazing. If you open it in WinAmp, it actually works quite nicely with one of the more 'k-hole-y' visualisation schemes turned on.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Aren't the later Rolling Stones albums kind of like beer-psych? Not because the stones didn't do psychedelics but their music, especially their later stuff, just has that bar room feel to me."
Well, I agree it has a bar room feel but does it retain any vestige of psychedelia to it? Not from what I've heard. If it does I still don't think it would be what my friend was talking about as that was supposed to describe bands who aspired to the psychedelic experience but simply didn't have it available rather than bands who have lost interest in it and who would rather concentrate on winning knighthoods and making sure they don't spend enough days in the uk to have to pay the same tax rate as everyone else.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
You know, it occured to me whilst I was drifting off to sleep last night that one of the reasons why happy hardcore isn't generally as good as yer classic 91-93 type hardcore might be that in happy hc the psychedelic vibes have been dramatically reduced (as I hear it anyway).
 
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