jazz - any help appreciated

[slim jenkins]

'The Complete Jack Johnson' box shows Miles displaying mad different methods to the way he did that shit - beyond 'Fusion' - beyond what anyone else was doing.

The transition phase from his second classic band to the fully electric period also produced the weird trance epic 'Circle In The Round'.

Perhaps the oddest thing he ever did was 'Rated X' - he plays organ (used as a drone instrument) with warped Indo-African elements and a hyper-drive 'funk' rhythm.

In answer to part of the original question, I got into Jazz during the post-Punk vacuum when to these ears Rock became redundant and Jazz sounded exciting and fresh. Cue Rip Rig & Panic (the band) and the whole interest from my gen in the Jazz thing which sparked the 80s club scene.

Despite its emergence in the mainstream press it felt like a proper underground music fuelled by bands that simply could not sell-out or disappoint - a kind of purity of spirit and attitude that we picked up on. From the 'floor-friendly Latin/Soul-influenced stuff some of us delved deeper and discovered the joys of The Art Ensemble, Charlie Parker, Ornette Coleman etc.

Unknowingly, we were exploding the myth (which still exists?) that Jazz is only for 'intellectuals'...tweedy bores...or Beatnik stereotypes.

 

[loof]

i should clearly state that, at this point in my life, i really can't stand cool jazz, sorry. not to my current taste.

blowing my own trumpet (ho ho) here but i'd like to think i'm reasonably comfortable with the avant. the last discovery i really got excited about music-wise was olivier messiaen a few months ago. i've found sun ra interesting but the sheer volume of his output makes him an intimidating figure and consequently someone who i've never properly checked out. might have to have a sesh soon-ish. i remember meaning to watch the "brother from another planet" documentary on bbc a few years ago then being a well pissed off when i missed it (pre days of iplayer)

bearing all this in mind, i reckon its more than likely i'll get into ra and some of the other stuff people have posted here. maybe one day i'll learn to like cool jazz, and maybe even kind of blue. kind of doubting it atm, tho the first track on KOB has grown on me a little bit.

i really want to get into bebop for the time being and there've been a number of good suggestions from people so far. if there's anyone left with any sort of info on bebop, please feel free to wax lyrical ...

 

[empty mirror]

well you may be reassured that your trajectory is similar to mine in regards to jazz. i found my way into it from the weird fringes (coltrane's meditations, miles davis' on the corner, patty waters, peter brotzmann's machine gun, sonny sharrock, sun ra) and have only recently been able to understand (and like) cool jazz-----in a way it is more difficult for us young guns to get into. but now i love me some chet baker, kind of blue, and all that shit to give my restless brain a massage!

 

[craner]

The Booker Ervin / Eric Dolphy duel that rips through 'I'll Remember April' on Mingus at Antibes is incredible.

 

[slim jenkins]

Spot on Craner - that whole album is amazing.

Re the 'Cool' thing...a bad association with easy-like-a-Sunday-morning coffee ads and polo-necked Arena readers is enough to put anyone off - the Yuppification of Cool. But it's a mistake to equate a certain approach to rhythm and sound with moneyed chic and candlelit dinners. Once you rid yourself of these associations and hear it purely as sound it becomes another magical way of fine-tuning music that isn't designed to cry out for attention or prove who's the fastest gunslinger.

The avant side of Jazz is usually what appeals to those coming from Rock/Electronic noise, understandably.

As for Ra, I usually suggest albums like 'Sun Song' for starters but that's assuming that they want to start on Earth (albeit Ra's big band vision of Earthly music) and progress to Saturn (he gets there pretty fast). Or just jump into 'The Heliocentric Worlds'. Fact is that Ra's path was never exactly linear in that he was constantly reshaping jazz as tribal or Moog-led, Swing or Free Noise in his own fashion.

 

[baboon2004]

I'd go with Alice Coltrane - Journeys in Satchidinanda as a start point. Doesn't sound like what you'd expect 'jazz' to be, at least not to me.

And maybe some Bill Evans or Nina Simone piano stuff, as a kind of bridge?

 

[empty mirror]

yeah---cool was an act of rebellion against jazz in suits (big band).
like every other rebellion, the establishment co-opts it and takes the teeth out (hip hop?!)

 

[Client Eastwood]

yeah---cool was an act of rebellion against jazz in suits (big band).
like every other rebellion, the establishment co-opts it and takes the teeth out (hip hop?!)

i read somewhere (might of been a Miles Davis autobiography ( i could be wrong)) that it was hard to keep up with the bebop intensity and demands on the body given many of the jazz musicians drug of choice was heroin ? ? So the birth of cool may have came out of late night jams as they were relaxing and high.

 

[slim jenkins]

Perhaps Cool was also just a West Coast, sunny state of mind...a reaction to scorching hot Bop...or, most obviously, an existential statement in response to atomic heat, Cold War concerns and the general rush towards materialistic nirvana on the road to Nowhere...plus, of course, a casual, laid back answer to apocalyptic predictions re flying saucers...see Shorty Rogers' 'Martians Go Home' from '55.

 

[STN]

other blue note faves: Jackie MacLean, Demon's Dance, Hank Mobely's Soul Station (some people see this as lightweight, but I think it's lovely), Dolphy's Out to Lunch (Tony Williams again).

John Coltrane Live in Seattle is one of my favourites too, and features Pharaoh Saunders, not that well regarded an album but I think it's a classic.

Anyone mentioned Machine Gun yet?

Sonny Sharrock's Black Woman is a great record too. Though it would be easy to take the piss out of.

I never got into Rahsaan Roland Kirk, though I do love 'Blacknuss' - again, a bit cheesy but whatever.

 

[Client Eastwood]

LOL

Cannonball Adderley (an co) - Somethin' Else - got all the big hitters on there. All about the first two tracks for me.

 

[STN]

Bang Diddley Speaketh True.

Also, for a rocky connection try Ornette's Dancing in Your Head, featuring Bern Nix on guitar, oh yes....

 

[empty mirror]

^ yes

 

[slim jenkins]

'Rip Rig And Panic' is the Kirk album IMO.

Too many Blue Notes to list but The Jazz Messengers and their best solo albums constitute a bunch of classics and define the sound. Sonny Rollins' 'Vols 1&2' plus 'Newks Time' are great and Monk's recordings for the label. Agree about 'Soul Station'.

Good call re Adderley. I also rate two Riversides 'Know What I Mean?' (with Bill Evans and a brilliant version of his classic 'Waltz For Debby') and 'Things Are Getting Better' with Milt Jackson - not complete masterpieces but the good in them is very good.

 

[slim jenkins]

Bang Diddley Speaketh True.

Also, for a rocky connection try Ornette's Dancing in Your Head, featuring Bern Nix on guitar, oh yes....

Was lucky enough to catch that band 'live'. I'd still direct a starter to his early Atlantic stuff, though...'The Shape Of Jazz To Come' for instance...or for a unique experience, 'Science Fiction'.

 

[empty mirror]

yeah i saw ornette, too, maybe three years ago. also saw herbie hancock around that time, speaking of jazz giants. speaking of which, the latter's Fat Albert Rotunda rules! also recently got into his synth-heavy Mwandishi----a real gem!

 

[craner]

I like these albums but really I just want to indulge with the fantastic covers. (This would make a lovely thread in itself.)

 

[slim jenkins]

If you like 'Mwandishi' you've got to get 'Crossings' and 'Sextant' from the same era - great stuff. Following that phase, 'Thrust', 'Man-Child' and 'Headhunters' put most Fusion in the shade. Great line-ups - class jazz-funk.

 

[craner]

Sextant is killer. Another great cover sleeve too.

 

[Tentative Andy]

The Booker Ervin / Eric Dolphy duel that rips through 'I'll Remember April' on Mingus at Antibes is incredible.

True facts.
The version of Folk Forms No 1 (or is it No 2, memory is hazy?) on that is incredible as well.